Status of the Librem 5

That just isn’t true though. There are plenty of contracts that are legally unenforceable no matter how much both parties want to sign. You cannot sign a contract that waives your human rights for example… contracts do not (in general) supercede the law.

(I’m not claiming that’s necessarily relevant here - just pointing out that it’s more complex than just - you signed a contract, you’re bound by whatever it says)

That simply isn’t true.
there are limitations on contracts. - for example a contract with my work can require me to not discuss matters related to work outside of work, but could not remove all freedom of speech outside of work.

lets rephrase it this way:
I bought my phone a month ago, the product, with a promise that I’d get it in a few months, - would you be happy if my order shipped before yours?

What if i got my device and you never received yours?

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This refers to a refund within 30 days of receiving it. I was under the impression that we were talking about refunds outside of that period, such as before receiving it.

Amazing how many want a refund. Why did you even pre order?

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I received a modem selection e-mail in November. I received no e-mail in January. And no estimate for when anything will be sent. And no phone.

Sounds like something has gone wrong in the process. I would be contacting

The post that you replied to only - it turns out - applies if you are someone who was part of the original set of backers to get to the crowdfunding target, which equates to an approximate order date at or before the end of October 2017.

If you ordered before the end of October 2017 and you received the modem selection email but have heard and received nothing else then it definitely sounds like something has gone wrong.

When did you order?

Lets say you have had an iphone for a year. and you think “I’ve got to get away from this constant upgrade race” and “I want to load whatever apps I like easily” and “I want a device I can trust”

Time line wise, Donator/backers were 2017,
pre orders were at the end of 2017.
by 2018 there were dates assigned for projected deliveries in 2019…
by the end of 2019 the phone was going to be released January 2020 (ok, then a global pandemic happened!)
end of 2020 mass production had arrived (though it still outwardly appears to be a batch production process.) and they were saying order now get in a few months.

So you expected your iphone to last another 1 - 2 years, and you bought a librem 5 on pre-order in 2018 expecting the release schedules to be met… if you bought in 2019, if was coming in 2020…

And here you are now, paid for a phone wondering if you need to buy another whilst you’re waiting. because if people are able to buy now and get in a few months surely your device will also come in a few months (less than!). - but then you’re also being told a few months might also be next year. and you don’t know if it’s even worth buying another device with a 2 year lifespan to tide you over until your Librem 5 arrives…

I honestly believe that if the company could say OK, we are mass producing, and we will deliver orders from X to Y by Z, and actually hit those deadlines… people would not be dropping out, but so far they apparently haven’t even been able to get email updates (delivery schedule) promised out when they were promised… (self imposed deadlines.)

So yes, whilst it seems absurd to patiently wait for years only to give up on the final stretch… I get it.


Meanwhile, I decided to put my $599 into Bitcoin. It increased in value by 1000%, and I didn’t have to threaten legal action to get my money out. Knowing this, why would you ever pre-order anything ever again?

Be careful, i hear it may take a drastic fall

In another post of yours you said, you ordered on 17 November 2019. In this case, I am not surprised you still haven’t gotten your phone.


I ordered in November 2019, but I received an email asking me for my shipping address and modem option in November 2020. I replied with my shipping address and queried the fact that the modem was made in China (noting that I would like a European frequency band modem). I got no response to my “China” enquiry, in fact I got no reply until I prompted perhaps in January, but then I was told that only the initial backers from 2017 were getting their phones now and to extrapolate my delivery date from that. Does that mean I’ll get mine in 2 years’ time? Will it be worth the wait? The Chinese modem thing definitively is an issue for me, will there be others? Will it be possible to replace the Chinese modem later with one I can feel comfortable with from a privacy point of view? I guess the “China” issue is the subject of another thread I’ve started, so I’ll check if I got any replies there.

Surprised is one thing, but I was promised it would be delivered by now, on several dates in the past, so I’m not surprised either but neither am I happy. Like someone else said, my existing phone has become so flaky - it’s constantly crashing - I do need to get a new one very soon. It has been getting flaky for some time. I don’t want to buy another Apple or Android. But then I need to do something. It would be good to know - is this phone coming, or do I buy something else?

If you ordered in November 2019, you probably won’t get the phone until Q3 2021 or later, so I recommend buying another phone. Even if you get the Librem 5 tomorrow, it will take a while to get the Librem 5’s software to a state where it equals the functionality of your current smartphone, so it is a good idea to have another phone to use while the software on the Librem 5 is improved.

The Librem 5 will always get software updates and the battery and communications cards can be replaced, so it should have a very long lifespan, so there isn’t much risk to waiting for the software to improve, because the phone will still be good.


I am outside US and I was wondering if they refund the nominal value or considering the inflation (since X Dollars have a lower price now than when ordered and I would certainly lose money)

Not Purism, but no company here in the U.S. has ever to my knowledge adjusted for inflation for refunds. If you paid $600 2+ years ago, you will be refunded $600, regardless of the current value of $600 USD.

Companies don’t have any obligation to give you an inflation adjusted refund anymore than they have to pay you ‘interest’ as if the money was invested during that period into an interest bearing account. That just isn’t standard practice here.


Plus, the Librem 5 is also now more “valuable” than at its inception. :slightly_smiling_face:


Patience. I ordered before you and am not complaining.


That sounds very unilateral and a change of contract without consideration.

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The status of Librem 5 is excellent. I paid for the development (not ordered !) in September 2017 and I just got an email that the phone will be delivered in about two weeks time … That is much more than I expected considering the difficulty to develop a phone from scratch with high requirements for privacy. How can you “order” a phone that does not exist ? At that time the development had not even started. I do not care for juridical nonsense but look at it from a common sense point of view.

So thanks to Purism - they did more than I expected.


Don’t forget the intangible gifts: the entertainment - all the drama, comedy, tragedy, intrigue and excitement plus all the other emotions of expectation and wait. With months of bonus content! Tell me you have not been entertained, for hours refreshing the forum and blog. Years of backlog to read, if you so desire - prequels to the current 5th ver… season. Also, there are spinoff-series in other categories! :star_struck: :crazy_face: