I agree with you. DHL is probably the worst case. Worst service ever in my country. Customs is also a bad experience. So an EU selling point is for convenience. I decided to support Purism to create a Linux phone but I most probably will not buy anything else in the future because I can not put myself in the pain of dealing with customs (at least I hope I will be given the chance to avoid DHL and choose USPS).
1 Like
Let’s not derail this topic with Purism’s price policy.
Having to deal with customs, currency conversion and calculating VAT is an obstacle. But the question is, how much of an obstacle is it to not buy a product.
Thinking of this in a capitalistic view: Opening an EU reseller is only profitable, if the profit of the sales generated by it are equal or higher to the costs of the EU reseller.
Everyone who already bought a product and only wants to have this product to be shipped from the reseller, is not generating more profit but would generate extra costs. This means that those of us (including me) who already bought the product have kind of no say 
It’s the same for gaming on linux. If you buy the windows release even though you want to play it on linux, what’s the incentive for the developer / publisher to create a linux build?
As Purism already had an EU reseller but closed it with the explanation of having too high efforts in paperwork. Support in EU for Laptops
I interpret that for the previous situation the sales did not justify the costs they had with the EU reseller. Based on the little information shared here on the forum, I suppose (only my opinion) that there will also not be an EU reseller in the next years.
An option where I see an EU reseller to appear soon
Maybe in a world where the Librem 5 would compete with Apple and Android for the masses and the average Joe from Europe isn’t capable of handling customs and stuff and only wants to buy it like from a local store or amazon and Purism has bathtubs full of money because of the money the generate all over the world in dedicated Purism shops and writing software is only very little expanse as they are selling millions of devices
3 Likes
That is exactly what I meant. I’m bought a Librem5 to support the work done by Purism, but what you wrote about the pinephone sounded like it would be a competing project and to me it doesn’t seem to be.
Purism puts paid development work into a product and by doing so publishes code that advances the idea of having mobile linux devices. Pine64 releases cheap hardware that can be used by a growing community for development and testing.
Put together it might be the driver for success to
Which is mine, too.
I had a personal email exchange with Gigaset Germany, slightly related to this topic. (It’s totally not about managing shipment, it’s more about a strategic coalition, about building a phone licensed or simply supported by Purism.)
Gigaset builds a smartphone branded “Made in Germany”, which is targeted at the low-price segment hence using established, cheap Android phone components. Assembly and packaging is done 100% in Germany, hence the label “Made in Germany”.
I tried suggesting them to explore possibilities of building a Linux-based, free smartphone. To allow for independence from Big Tech (and The President’s daily mood), a value we should strive for to make the European technology sector stronger and less affected from decisions of other markets. Specifically, I suggested to talk to Purism or Pine64, depending what fits their market strategy better, or even both for comparison of future potentials.
Unfortunately, my conversation partner was “just” corporate communication (info.presse@gigaset.com), who dismissed my suggestions purely on the “current fact” that “iOS and Android together have 99.4% of the market share”. But he agreed to hand my suggestions on to the product development.
Email excerpt: (German, sorry!)
Sehr geehrter Herr Bittner,
vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Es freut uns, dass Sie die Entwicklungen, die wir im Bereich Smartphones machen, als positiv bewerten. Allerdings kann ich Ihnen relativ deutlich zurückgeben, dass es “mehr als unwahrscheinlich ist”, dass wir uns in diese Richtung bewegen werden.
Android erreichte im Juli 2020 einen Marktanteil von 74,6 Prozent, Apples iOS erzielte einen Marktanteil von 24,8 Prozent. Das sind aufsummiert 99,4 Prozent der weltweiten Marktes. Alle anderen Betriebssysteme rangieren bestenfalls unter dem Begriff “Exoten”.
In einem Markt, in dem der Großteil der Kunden sich - anders als Sie - vor allem für den billigsten Preis entscheidet, ist es Gigaset unmöglich ein neues Betriebssystem zu entwickeln (auch nicht in Kooperation) und erfolgreich am Markt zu etablieren.
Entsprechend habe ich Ihre Mail natürlich an die Kollegen der Entwicklung weitergegeben, ich denke jedoch, dass es unwahrscheinlich ist, dass diese zu einer anderen Einschätzung kommen als ist.
Das Problem ist nicht das “Wollen”, sondern die Milliarden Marketing-Dollar, die Apple und Google sowie tausende andere Smartphone Anbieter in iOS und Android pumpen…
Hochachtungsvoll,
Raphael Dörr
(Some clarifications of mine followed, mainly referring to the potential future of the phone market, 5-7 years ahead. Then:)
Sehr geehrter Herr Bittner,
danke Ihnen - ich habe unseren gesamten Austausch an die Kollegen weitergegeben.
Beste Grüße
Raphael Dörr
2 Likes
For people who don’t read German (like me), here is the translation of @bittner’s letter:
Dear Mr. Bittner,
Thank you for your message. We are pleased that you rate the developments that we are making in the area of smartphones as positive. However, I can tell you fairly clearly that it is “more than unlikely” that we will move in this direction.
Android achieved a market share of 74.6 percent in July 2020, Apple’s iOS achieved a market share of 24.8 percent. That adds up to 99.4 percent of the global market. All other operating systems rank under the term “exotic” at best.
In a market in which the majority of customers - unlike you - primarily opt for the cheapest price, it is impossible for Gigaset to develop a new operating system (not even in cooperation) and establish it successfully on the market.
Accordingly, I of course passed your mail on to my colleagues in development, but I think it is unlikely that they will come to a different assessment than is.
The problem is not the “want”, but the billions of marketing dollars that Apple and Google and thousands of other smartphone providers are pumping into iOS and Android …
Sincerely,
Raphael Dörr
Dear Mr. Bittner,
thank you - I passed our entire exchange on to my colleagues.
Best regards
Raphael Dörr
@bittner, I doubt that any phone manufacturers are going to switch to Linux in the short term, but we should have a great deal of hope in the long term:
How does mobile Linux have any chance against Android and iOS when other OSes failed?
Why buy the Librem 5 when there are no apps for it?
If Purism can get Phosh to a good enough state, it will actually cost phone makers less to use Linux than Android, because they won’t have to pay licensing fees for Google Mobile Services, and they will freed from Microsoft’s patent racket which forces them to pre-install Microsoft’s apps.
It is worth pointing out that Gigaset is the manufacturer of the Volla Phone, so Gigaset is already making a Linux phone. I wonder if Raphael Dörr knows that someone is already doing the work to port the Gigaset GS290 to Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish OS, plus an AOSP derivative.
In my opinion, Gigaset is a poor choice for making a Linux phone, because they use MediaTek SoC’s which will never be supported by mainline Linux, because MediaTek refuses to release the source code for its kernels. This means that Gigaset phones can’t be supported long term, because MediaTek only supports its SoC’s for a couple years. Since the Mediatek Helio P23 MT6763 (16nm FF+) in the GS290 was released in Q3 2017, that means that the SoC is nearing the end of its support cycle, so it is unlikely that MediaTek will release driver or firmware updates for the chip. It is likely using Linux 4.14 (released in Nov 2017), which was the newest kernel supported by Android 9, and the kernel version is unlikely to ever be updated.
In addition, Gigaset is technically a violator of the GPL, because it is selling hardware with MediaTek’s Linux kernel without releasing the source code. Sadly, because Volla Phone isn’t the original manufacturer, it probably doesn’t have access to MediaTek’s original source code, so it can’t help us, although Gigaset could release the source code but Gigaset probably signed an NDA that prohibits it. For more info, see Comparing Linux Phones and download the spreadsheet.
If Gigaset had used Snapdragon, it could have avoided these problems, which is why I’m not excited about Volla Phone, even though I want the company to survive, since it seems to have its heart in the right place.
2 Likes
I would like linux, and all the related computer world, to be known but, as I read in the company’s reply email, Apple and Google spend a lot of money on advertising. And this is true. People (I mean those who are not infomatics or who do not have this passion) do not know what linux and open source are and they do not know the idea and the exploitation that, instead, large commercial companies make of it. Buy the most advertised mobile phone or one similar to that of your friends and which is of the best known brands.
Personally I believe that a continuous media campaign should be organized in order to raise awareness of linux, and its uses and advantages, in the only way we users could collaborate: by sharing information media. I believe that more or less we all have telegram or twitter or facebook etc. If (for example) the FSF launched a worldwide information campaign, trying to involve as many users as possible, it would be enough to re-share a video published by FSF on our twitter, facebook, telegram accounts. A small average, changed weekly, for a whole year published on our accounts.
Regards
2 Likes
It’s a huge market. 0.01 percent of it is not attractive enough?
1 Like
Ahum…Are we continuing talks about Linux phone markets and pricing? I’d like that, but as per @maximilian comment I don’t want to further derail the thread if it bothers others.
I added this question to the Community FAQ:
Will the Librem 5 be offered through an EU seller?
(That way everyone will know the history of this question.)
3 Likes
Just noticed a EU (Danish) reseller Linuxnordic: https://linuxnordic.com/shop/8-mobiler/17-librem-5/
Price at current rates is north of 2100$USD. Other Purism stuff and other linux brands available too.
Edit the title and FAQ?
2 Likes
Unclear if its the L5 USA or not. Do they have them in stock? If so, this would explain the shipping delays…
The photo of the side reveals “Librem 5” as opposed to “Librem 5 USA.” (Assuming the photos correspond to the actual item they’re selling.)
Considering the price, I’d imagine it’s due to taxes and profit from importing it to EU, not because it’s the USA variant. For the same reason, I’d ques they do not have much stock. The page does say they do have it in stock ATM.
This is good news. Especially if they can sell batteries.
Let me just note that the competition is far ahead:
Interestingly, batteries not included - nor any other small parts and accessories (except hub).
Really unclear what they are sellling, since the photo shows the Librem 5, but the description at Linuxnordic says:
Librem 5 is Made in USA with headquarter facility in California. And it holds the most secure setup you will find in a non-military mobile phone.
Given the amount of inaccuracies on the website, I don’t know whether we should trust it to provide accurate info. It says that the Librem 5 has “2GB RAM”, when it should be 3GB of RAM. It also says:
Purism leads in its secure software supply chain with auditable firmware, software, and reproducible builds .
The firmware in the Librem 5 is proprietary and not auditable. The website also says:
Alternative OSes supported
Any other GNU/Linux based operating systems just work including but not limited to: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, CentOS, SUSE, and RedHat Enterprise. This is because Purism and PureOS utilize the most strict security and mainline policy offering hardware that will last for many years with full software support .
As far as I know, only postmarketOS and Mobian have ports for the Librem 5, and they don’t “just work”. They are taking text from the original Librem 5 crowdfunding announcement from August 2017 and assuming that Purism has already achieved mainline Linux support for the Librem 5 and can run on any distro.
The site is mixing info about the Librem 14 with the Librem 5 which makes no sense:
Hardware security
You cannot get more secure than a physical hardware kill switch to turn-off your camera, microphone, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, even the modem, with Purism’s signature hardware kill switches . The Librem 14 also includes a TPM chip (“Trusted Platform Module”) which can be combined with the Librem Key for the best security setup available.
Clearly, this seller doesn’t know much about the product they are selling and its over-the-top security claims for the Librem 5 are also questionable. It is worth seeing whether they can sell replacement batteries for the Librem 5. Otherwise, I would advise steering clear of them.
3 Likes
Agreed. It’s fairly obvious that this is no authorized reseller of Purism products.
PINE64 is not the competition, proprietary software and hardware is the competition.
5 Likes
Also to clear this up a bit, Nordic is not an official reseller of Purism.
6 Likes
Right. Let me rephrase:
Alternatives are far ahead on this issue 
I think that at least some solution for batteries must be found.