That’s not relevant and could be misleading in the context of a Librem 14 laptop.
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After responding to the email on the 8th and couple of emails back and forth over a large time difference, my order got marked as ready for shipping on the 9th and it was shipped on the 15th, so it is a pretty quick turnaround.
I had the same concerns, especially looking at another linux phone that is currently on the market, but I went for it as my current phone is well past its used by date. I’m getting it tomorrow hopefully (thanks DHL…) and am looking forward to freedom. The firmware and software is still under heavy development, so it will get better with time… except the hardware.
If you do get the phone, you are not just getting the phone, you are supporting Purism, which in my opinion is doing nothing but good for moving Linux forward on mobile devices.
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I haven’t taken this decision lightly, but I’ve decided to go for a refund. I didn’t want to get it and sell it. Looking at Ebay offerings I wasn’t sure if I’d get my invested money, let alone more.
I’ll have a closer look at a competitor’s phone as well. But I’m not in a hurry. I had been waiting for a while for the Librem to arrive. But after it became clear it wouldn’t arrive soon I had to buy a new Android phone which I’m currently using.
Thanks a lot to everyone for sharing their opinions!
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Currently it is a capable but FULLY MANUAL camera. Think of it as old school and I sorta enjoy the challenge. Properly set it does produce good quality images.
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Hopefully your refund request goes smoother than the ones here Estimate your Librem 5 refund 💸
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I ordered a phone two years ago thinking I would receive it, like any other order; in the meantime, they made it appear like a support for their startup; since I told them I wasn’t interested in that and that I wanted my phone or a refund, they stopped answering my mails. I think everything is a big setup and we will never get our money or phone
I ordered in May 2019, my son ordered several months before that. He got his phone this Summer but he upgraded to the US phone. Still waiting here but too cheap to upgrade.
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Hundreds of people have reported how they got their phones.
If that still doesn’t convince you that both the company and the phones are real, maybe this CNBC feature does?
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I didn’t say the company or the phones weren’t real, but the whole buying process seems like a big scam; nowhere on their site it isn’t mentioned that the delay for having your phone is somewhere between two to four years; people want to get and use what they pay for, not create a deposit for an unlimited period.
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The problem you’ll have with hyperbole is that it’s wrong by definition. It’s not an unlimited length of time, but it has historically been much longer than purisms estimates which makes the current estimate of 1 year hard to trust, but there’s no way to see the future and know that they won’t catch up in that time it’s just a guess. Purism guesses they will, based on your statements you guess they won’t. Neither party knows for certain. They have crossed from more than 4 years to less than 4 years so they do appear to be getting closer, albeit slowly.
So, at the current rate of progress without knowing the amount of sales over time, it would be reasonable to guess that a purchase now will be less than 4 years waiting, likely less than 3, and maybe even less than 2, certainly not unlimited waiting.
@occhi You may be interested in this batch chart in case you haven’t seen it already. The chart tells you to which of the pending production runs (E4 or E5) your phone is assigned.
While knowing the batch isn’t going to give you a shipping estimate, it may help set expectations.
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Holly crap 
Producing the phone slower than expected is one thing. But holding on to the money - that long cannot be legal.
Even though I see and understand what they did achieve, the company has lost my sympathy and probably that of many others. Technical specs were actually not the primary reason for that, but the communication.
I’ve always had the feeling that every time they announced a delay, the reason they stated (like covid) had just been a welcome excuse.
For me the rock bottom in communication was when they said they’d start shipping from point x in time and then they announced they’d start shipping in badges and probably 99% of the buyers would need to wait another 2 years.
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This was and maybe is just, cause they have to pay for Items first, before assembling and start to ship that phones.
And with the Parts from China, we had Covid, we had other Manufactures in many devices using that same CPU in Products like Cars and so on.
They thought it would be a cheap Mass Product, but then it got rar, cause of Shipping Issues in Europe and buying on the Spot-marked for higher prices was an issue. Inflation right now too.
So they collect Money and bring up the USA Phone and create new Jobs, for some higher costs. I think not it was a welcome excuse, cause that are real issues in the world. Look at China now and Apple and 25% Applephones in India. Its a Shame. Purism do the right thing. And even if i have to wait longer i will. Cause there is no other Phone with Linux out there. Yes i could and maybe will buy a Pinephone if my Lineageos Phones got unsupported cause Kernel/Binary-Closed-Source-Driver issues.
Right now, Google, Apple or Huawai-Phones are no Option. Then its better to have no Phone at all.
Edit: And Waiting 12 or 24 Month to get out of the Nophone-, and still use Laptop-Hole its… just worth.
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It isn’t legal. The FTC clearly states that refunds must be made within 7 days after the customer canceled the order, this also applies to pre-orders. So yes, Purism is breaking the law by holding on to that money.
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The big problem at the end of the day is that Purism does not have the proper funding.
If Elon Musk would have invested 40 Billion USD in Purism instead of this micro-blogging thingy, then you would have most likely received your refund promptly and we would have most likely had an energy efficient 5nm SoC for Librem 5.
I guess Purism have been too short on cash in order to be able to refund anybody who requests a refund. This is just a guess, but for me this seems like the most logical explanation.
And filing for bankruptcy would have not helped anyone. It would have just killed the whole project that still has a chance for success.
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There is an element of doubt, Elon’s companies are notorious for not paying their bills on time. Disney has the same bad rap. I remember my last job, telling the Accounts Receivable clerk not to refer Spacex to collection. Too much trouble for 10 cents on the dollar with a collection agency. Why? “Because it was Spacex, live and learn.” But this was a 90 day versus 120 day window, not years. Besides some companies use this as a strategy, they are happy to settle a bill with a collection agency at a fraction of the cost of the original bill. Of course this is only an opinion.
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I don’t think you understand bankruptcy in the US. Chapter 11 bankruptcy laws in the US are specifically there to fairly address such issues and allow the company to reorganize and move forward. Most people outside of the US think that “bankruptcy” means what would be called US Chapter 7 (liquidation).
In my opinion, if Purism could not afford to honor their refund promises/obligations, bankruptcy is the only fair and moral route.
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Sounds like it. Possibly you are right.
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And don’t forget the four other chapters, 9, 12, 13, & 15!
Of course! The lesser known chapters:
Chapter 9. For municipalities. People keep trying to say Purism “is a community”, but I still don’t think Chapter 9 bankruptcy applies to Purism.
Chapter 12. Is only for farmers and fishermen, I think. Maybe it’s anybody in an industry that starts with an “f”? In which case it might apply if we change the spelling to “Fone”?
Chapter 13. For individuals, not corporations. It’s kind of a voluntary “garnish my wages” plan to remind us of a time of indentured servitude. It’s sold as “better than Chapter 7”, but …
Chapter 15. The old multi-national portions of the statute.
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