The Need For Clear Communications From Purism


Agreed. There’s also this (EDIT):


It’s great to see that you guys actually do have some standards. Now try applying them to Purism instead of Pine and see how it goes for ya.


In my opinion, all this really shows is that neither companies have yet followed on their promises (despite both being heralded as the hero). Until we get the devices in our hands, it could all just be big bluff. That said, i think we have a degree of respect that the companies will deliver. And i do expect them to deliver.


You are talking to a person who actually has a Pinebook Pro sitting on his dining room table at home. I’m also typing this on a Librem 15 rev3 that I received over two years ago. So please, stop acting as if Pine hasn’t delivered jack diddly squat. They’ve delivered a lot more to their community in the last month than Purism has, that much I can assure you.


But neither has purism. Purism has shown prototypes, videos of it being tested and developed, case designs, pictures, mainboards, etc. Just like pine. You also gotta remember purism is actually developing their own software. Pine is a hardware company, while i like to think of purism as a software one that happens to dabble in the hardware too.


If we don’t hear back from purism by the 22nd, and we don’t see any devices in the wild, then I’ll safely say that the project is in trouble.


They haven’t even shown the phone engaging in a successful phone call yet. Come on. Seriously?


Actually, there is video of a test call, on one of the finalized dev kits. There is a feedback that needs to be resolved and still has a open bug report. I expect it can be taken care of in software, as others have mentioned (as far as i know it’s actually common for phones to use software for this kind of thing).


ROFL. Wait, what’s the feedback? Please tell me there is an open bug that prevents the hardware from making/completing a call while they are claiming to ship it to customers. If you do and provide a link, you’ll make my week.


It does work however (it’s annoying, yes, but not a show stopper just yet). Might be the cause for the last minute case redesign? I recall a couple android phones in the past having an issues like this at launch and they were all resolved in software. They never said everything would be perfect software wise on launch with aspen, but i think their reasoning for only releasing it internally from what we can tell so far is to try and buff out the last remaining sore spots before letting it into the wild. Might even be solved already, considering they don’t seem to communicate much on their issue trackers either in some cases.

Again: If nothing shows on the 22nd outside of purism, then it would be worry time. I personally am going to stick with it.


I’m pretty sure that’s packing. Just out of curiosity, has anyone else here worked factory/picking work? I did it years ago after quitting a job when I found out they were hiring at a higher rate for the exact same work (never quit a job unless you have something lined up). Y’know those plastic tubs of mini cookies you get at the convenience store? Yeah, I filled and weighed those, the lady next to me put the lid and tamper proof band on, etc. etc. down the line.
It’s hard freaking work!
If it’s purism employees doing the shipping (not used to that kind of work at that) I’m betting I can tell you exactly what they’re doing:
Lurch out of bed, do family responsibilities and shower etc. like a zombie while using tiger balm or aspercream like an addict, go to work, pack boxes, break, pack boxes, lunch, pack boxes, break, pack boxes, go home, do family responsibilities still in zombie mode :frowning: , try to have a beer for a treat before bed but pass out before you finish even half of it, dream of boxes…get up and do it again.

Thank you for packing our boxes to all and whomever is doing it :slight_smile:


That’s really sad this bug has been open for three months. If anything a smartphone should be a flawless phone out of the box. That’s literally core functionality. I once bought my wife an economy Samsung Phone and after some time we realized that it was just ignoring calls from people around 25% of the time. Unless the callers left a voicemail we had no idea anybody had called (no ring, no missed call notifications). After doing some research I realized that nearly every Samsung smartphone made over the last five years suffers from a similar bug.

It astounds me to no end that people are willing to put up with that kind of crap. But hey if it’s okay for Android phone OEMs to ship out that kind of garbage, its okay for Purism too, eh? LOL. You guys are in the midst of tumbling down a very slippery slope. I wish you all the best of luck with the bottom.


@jaylittle You keep saying the same thing over and over again in different threads. I am curious as to your motivation.

You do realize that is the standard behavior for trolls, right? Is that what you are trying to be?

Or are you trying to advertise yourself in some way?

I am going to give a piece of advice. I mean it sincerely, so I apologize if you take it the wrong way.

Everything you say on the internet that is not end-to-end encrypted is a resume piece.


Ive been developing software for over two decades. I’ve been on teams where things go wrong. In one case we had core data set up in such a way (with fields set as an optional in the model but not in the corresponding Swift file) that worked just fine in Swift 2, but when we recompiled in Swift 3 some customers (many actually) that had corrupted data on there phones started experiencing constant crashes.

It was embarrassing. Our test phones and pilot group didn’t have the bad data, so the error wasn’t caught. And since the affected pieces of code didn’t actually change, it wasn’t caught in the code reviews (the app is > 300,000 lines).

You can handle those situations in 2 ways. We said, “Okay, we have a lot of crash logs (you can access them through Xcode). Let’s examine them, fix it, get it out.” We had a fix in review within hours.

The other way people react is to point fingers, and try to tear others down. I’ve seen that too. And, based on your recent interactions within these forums, I would put you in the second group.

The people I’ve brought onto our various teams, That I’ve mentored, I tell them to be the first type of guy, not the second type.

I hope in your job you are the first type, the “okay something is wrong let’s fix it type.”

If not, you are just going to tear your fellow employees, and your company, down.

I think you might take this advice wrong, but it is meant kindly. I really do hope in your work life you are constructive and help your coworkers to succeed.


You do realize purism basically made the software from nothing? I mean yeah, the kernel and a few odd libraries existed, but otherwise they were pretty much on their own. It’s amazing they got it to a state where with a few more months of dev time could mean it might be pretty dang fine, in about three years, which is rather small considering the fact that they are a small company. They also told everyone that it’s not perfect yet, and that aspen is for those that are antsy to get one.

Pinephone hasn’t made their own software, and are leaving it up to the community.


I’m not a troll. I’m just somebody who feels ethically compelled to warn you all before I depart. That way after this thing blows up and all of you are down and out at least $599.00 USD I can say to myself, “Well I tried to warn them”.

I realize that from your perspective there appears to be precious little difference between the two motivations. Unfortunately I’m not in a position where I can have a 100% frank conversation with you all about this and even if I was willing have that conversation, I certainly wouldn’t do it on Purism’s own forums.

Honestly given the level of zealotry present here, I doubt anybody would believe me anyway if I went into more detail. Everybody here is so dead set on the idea of this phone, no amount of damning reality will shake the core belief as it seems to be paired with a very sympathetic and understandable form of desperation. On some level I get it. I really do. I’m just as tired of this terrible user antagonistic smart phone ecosystem that we are all forced to live with. But I refuse to be part of a lie or a scam and this Librem 5 project has devolved into both.

As for my job, I’m a problem solver. I write code. People come to me with problems and I code tools which help to solve the stated problem (when possible). I’ve been doing that for the last 20 years. I hate pointing fingers. I am a doer. It pains me that in this situation, knowing what I know, this approach is the best I can muster. Maybe a year from now after this has blown up and its all over but the crying, feel free to reach out to me on reddit @ /u/jaylittle and I’ll be more than happy to explain in more detail.

Until then, take solace in the fact that I’ll be disappearing in short order. Just as soon as my Librem 5 refund clears. Once that happens, I have no intentions of coming back to this forum. What I am doing here is not fun and it’s not entertaining to me in any way, shape or form. It’s an ethical compulsion. Once my ties to this project have been severed, my ethical compulsion will dwindle significantly as it’s no longer my money on the line. Sniffing out the scam will officially become everybody else’s problem.

TLDR: The world is full of decent people, scammers and suckers. What kind are you?

Can I ask for a refund?

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t entertained. Sorry, but it’s the truth. @jaylittle You’re definitely adding PR value given your style of presenting totally unresearched extreme stretches and baseless accusations (no potential customer at this price point is really going take that seriously anyhow so it’s not like you’re doing any damage). I’m absolutely sure that if you have a valid reason for requesting a refund it will be honoured, but if I were Purism marketing I would just ‘loose the cheque’ for a few weeks to keep this going. After all, no publicity is bad publicity.
Gonna go make more popcorn now…


I love how you trust a company to act in your best interests while simultaneously encouraging them to act against mine for mere comedic value. Your lacking sense of irony is quite stunning.


@jaylittle You’re the one who keeps writing comments like that…
Oh, also, it’s all about the funny, It’s always all about the funny ! :smiley:


I would like to see Purism’s communication with the community be like PINE64, which is much more open and direct.

However, we need to recognize that PINE64 has a different development model. It is trying to develop the hardware and it is relying on communities to provide the software, so it needs to talk publicly about every roadblock and setback it encounters, because it has to communicate with its development partners. Another difference is the fact that PINE64 produces products are mostly geared for tinkerers and developers, whereas Purism is aiming more for end users who may not have much technical knowledge. People who buy from PINE64 are more likely to understand what it means when PINE64 says that it has to switch the digitizer and not freak out and cancel their orders.

Purism is facing a very different situation than PINE64. The PinePhone is less of an investment since it only represents 1 year of development and less likely to break the company, since it it just one of many new products. Purism ~20 developers who have been working 2-3 years on the Librem 5, so it needs to be more careful and more reserved about what it says.

Purism has taken a much greater risk, trying to develop a new mobile OS, and investing in components that don’t require proprietary software. Look at the amount of work that Purism has invested in the Linux drivers for the i.MX8MQ vs the amount of work that PINE64 invested in the Linux drivers for the Allwinner A64 and Rockchip RK3399 for its projects.

What you have to think about is whether you support Purism’s goals vs PINE64’s goals, because they are fundamentally different. Purism’s mission is very important to me, which is why I preordered the Librem 5 instead of the PinePhone.

Are We Customers or Investors or Donors?

I have muted this thread.