Where’s my refund?

I have yet to receive cash compensation from Purism since starting in October. This is largely my decision as I’ve been deferring cash invoices to accelerate paying off AP, but of course this has limitations since I have rent to pay and a landlord unwilling to accept convertible notes as payment. Landlords are so picky. :wink:

I wish I could discuss finances here which would greatly improve understanding and alleviate some of the assumptions seen scattered around the forum, but I will say this:

True, this has been a particularly challenging period in Purism’s financial and PR timeline, but things are turning around for the better. The investments are truly making a huge impact on Purism’s ability to breathe and catalyzing the ability to live within its means (i.e. purely from sales revenue).

This is done by clearing oppressively-termed debts, enabling policy and infrastructure (i.e. IT, ERP, etc) improvements for streamlined operations, and fueling some very exciting R&D that has massive potential within the realm of PureOS security features and enterprise sales partnerships. “I don’t care about enterprise sales - I just want my refund.” Yes, totally understood. However, do keep in mind that an entire refund backlog can quickly be reconciled with even a single enterprise deal.

Purism is acutely aware of all outstanding refund requests and is fully committed to process them as soon as financially possible. In fact, I received a copy of the spreadsheet of all outstanding requests today and am working with leadership, finance, and support to discover and evaluate operational efficiencies to increase allocations toward refund disbursement.

It is one of my personal goals to accomplish exactly what you are saying. I am working hard to help Purism get to the point where they can confidently announce that 100% of all refunds have been processed, that they can guarantee a shipping window, and that there are policies in place for consistent operations and customer engagement such that they are never in this predicament again.


I want to note that “can be” is far far different than “will be”. I’m not aware of anyone from Purism asserting the latter.

While that’s good to hear, I wonder why Purism hasn’t made any official announcement saying that.

[Edit: You say that Purism is “acutely aware” of all outstanding refund requests. Explain, then, why Todd pretended not to understand the nature of the refund requests. See the discussion between Todd and Joe Johnson on the discussion tab of https://www.startengine.com/offering/purism . Personally, I read that and my opinion of Todd goes way down. Any comment @JCS ? What do you tell others in Joe Johnson’s position who are left without a refund while Joe got one? ]

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Because Lawyers.


Do you know what they have communicated to someone who is actually waiting for refund?

It isn’t my business or your business.

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I do know – the thread of “Purism has stopped replying to me” is the gist. I’ve collected lots of stories. It’s on forums (here, reddit, mastodon) and is in the press (e.g. Louis Rossman, …). It is everyone’s business how a FOSS company treats its customers.

It seems hypocritical that when one discusses FOSS, everyone here emphasizes that “sunlight is the best disinfectant”. But when one discusses issues with a FOSS company, they say “it’s not anyone’s business”.


The reality is that you and I are not a party to the communication, recent or ancient, between Purism and anyone who is actually waiting for a refund.


This omits a very important half of the picture. Purism is aiming to put into the hands of its customers tools that will protect the privacy of the customer. Privacy is more important to Purism and to Purism’s customers than to the average person.

A private conversation between two parties should not be made public without the consent of both parties. In that sense it is not my business and it is not your business.


It is not private when one (or more) of the participants makes it public.

If you are acquainted with a couple and it becomes apparent that one is beating/abusing the other, do you look the other way and say “it’s not my business”? When others try to bring up that situation, do you have the gall to tell them “it’s not your business?”


You may be making an assumption about the timing of when a company receives the funds in an IPO.


I received the order now and would like to know how I could sell it on here to another user as you described.


To be clear, do you mean that you have physically received the device, or that you received an update that the device was ready to ship?

I doubt it makes a difference. You could probably make a forum topic to sell it either way. But I was just curious.

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Unshipped orders are better. They include free shipping, can be traded for a 120% purism store credits etc.

Also for international orders you only pay VAT on value (early phones were $599)

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I received it physically after paying $500 in taxes.


If you choose to sell in this forum then

  • make a new topic
  • category of topic is what you are selling
  • tag it with marketplace
  • specify what you are selling (specifications)
  • specify where you are willing to ship to
  • and where you are shipping from
  • be cautious about including any Personally Identifying Information (PII) e.g. avoid including a phone number
  • and specify the asking price of course.

For more comprehensive guidelines and discussion … Forum Guide: Marketplace items


My experience in Australia for what it is worth. I purchased 2 x Librem 5s in 2021 and it took 2 years for them to arrive, but I accepted there would be delays. Have these phones worked, yes they have as phones and a basic computer but you would be foolish to think the transition from Android or Apple to this new ecosystem would be easy. So much convenience is lost and this is the price of improving your security. However, in 2022 I ordered a Librem 14 with Qubes pre-installed. It arrived in a month or two, and I have to say once I started to grasp how Qubes works (which took a while), it is brilliant. The laptop is well spec’d, performs very well and with the latest Qubes 4.2.1 the software is slick. Highly recommend the computer, but while the phones are well built, you are buying into an embryonic ecosystem that you have to be ready to support. That is a personal decision. I make no comment on the companies problems with supply or apparent difficulty with refunds. I just state that they make genuine products, some of them very good.


Did you read what “someday” has discussed? I don’t think they ever implied that Purism doesn’t make genuine products.

Summary: They ordered a Librem 14 (mid-Feb 2024). Delivery was delayed too long. In the meantime they got a different computer and asked for a refund on the Librem 14. Purism ghosted him. At this point they have now taken delivery of the Librem 14 that they no longer want or need. They are selling it. If you think it’s so great, perhaps you can buy it from them or find someone to buy it from them.

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I note your comments. The answers to your question and suggestion are respectively yes and no.

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Several forum users have however made that implication over the journey e.g. a forum user who is in dispute with Purism and has received neither device nor refund.

Given that @someday has received a device and is considering selling it … yes, in the case of that specific forum user it would make no sense to suggest that the products don’t actually exist, and that user did not make that implication.

But then forum users sometimes reply to posts where the reply is not actually a reply to the post e.g. no text from the post was quoted.

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Yes. I looked into it … and I guess I was wrong when I said that someday never implied that Purism doesn’t make genuine products. In this case, Discourse recorded this as a reply to someday’s early entry ( Where’s my refund? - #87 by someday ) which was before he was able to get JCS to intervene (to get customer service to stop ghosting him if he agreed) to take delivery. In fact, that post by someday did use the words “Ponzi scheme”. Still, I would think one might read the whole thread before replying to a 3 week old entry.


Had you received an email asking for your preferred refund payment method? It should have been sent at least a week ago. Your open ticket is marked as “waiting on customer” and your refund is pending.