This thread begins to become more and more strange. It feels like you invest more to make my words implausible than talking about the things I mentioned in general. If you (@Seven) felt attacked by me I want to say sorry!
I can just repeat. I don’t wanted to bother anyone nor judge about anything. Everybody is free to interpret my comments. Nobody is forced to trust me or you or Wire or Signal … I just shared my thoughts / my opinion or my view on the messenger topic and meta data in general. There is no need to put more and more articles on the table. Everybody should read several sources (e.g. not just a bunch of documents, videos, etc. provided by the vendor or an application) before he decides what makes sense for his own microcosm. There is no need that everybody has the same opinion at the end. A list of properties a privacy friendly messenger should have might be enough. Decide what is most important and less important and at the end you can compare this with your favorite messengers. The result will be different from person to person.
At no time did I ever think you were attacking me or anyone else. At no time did I even say anything to that effect. So no apology is needed. The only thing that would be strange is how you managed to come to such a conclusion in the first place. You should probably just read what I write rather than trying to read into them to look for something that is not there.
Nowhere did anyone say they felt they were being judged or bothered. I can not speak for others, but for myself…If I think I am being bothered I would tell you just that. I say what I mean and mean what I say. That makes communication a lot less complicated. I am sure most in the forum would agree. Nowhere did I say that everyone had to have the same opinion or agree. What I DID say was that you should list more sources than just one article if you want to share your concerns with the community. You should always provide multiple sources of evidence. I was actually trying to have a productive exchange.
And from that statement, it is obvious you also agree, but you only provided one. I asked you to provide more information but, for some reason, you chose not too. Most people would be happy to provide additional information when asked, especially if they believe they have an important point to make. This was not one versus another. I was really wanting accurate information. If it was so, then I can change my mind as software has so many options. But for some reason you are unwilling. The gives the implication that you, yourself, did not do much research on the subject. So this caused me to some research. And what I found was a lot more in-depth and thorough. So it most definitely needed to be shared. That’s why I provided what I found.
I agree wholeheartedly. All that I ask is that you provided adequate sources of evidence to support your position. That’s not too much to ask anyone.
You also had a possible solution. When I asked you to provide information and evidence as to why this might be better, you refused. Again, no follow through. You could have given the group a good reason why that should be an option, and when asked to do so, you declined. It may very well be a great option. That is half-hearted at best and robs the community of great options to discuss for the platform. But you can’t have a good discussion unless plenty of evidence is laid out to do so.
All I wanted from you was more resources and information. It was really that simple as that is exactly what I was asking for in my previous remarks. If you are unwilling to provide such, okay. But that accomplishes nothing to talk about points or suggestions you are unwilling to support.
I hope, in the future, others will be more willing to provide information when they make their observations and suggestions so we can progress in a good direction for options and functionality of the Librem Phone OS.
I am also very interested by knowing if “Chatty”, the E2EE messaging app from Purism will be compatible with iOS/Android equivalent. Because, I need to communicate with world, not only Purism users.
Well, the purpose of this thread is to talk about the value of Wire and what it can offer the Librem 5.
However, if you make a new thread specifically talking about chatty/twitch possibilities I am sure many will be very eager to talk about it as I have no doubt many would want that too.
Since there is debian package of Wire (both repo and .deb), one could actually install it on Libre5 without issues, right? But that is desktop version, and I’m not sure how it will look on 5" screen
I figure since that the majority of what is needed is already there, making the phone UI to it would probably be the bulk of the work. Not sure how the present desktop version would work on the phone though. I would imagine the hardware would be a factor as well.
You are right that Telegram is used by many. However, there are many issues with Telegram that should give pause to anyone who wants to use the application.
So far the server code is still closed source. Telegram said they will make it open source but has yet to do so and usually, that is a concern for most people in the open source community. While Wire servers are already open source and free to review.
Telegram secret chats have to be enabled so end-to-end encryption is off by default. Wire end-to-end encryption is on by default be it video, audio, file sharing, etc…
Telegram requires your phone number to create an account. Wire gives users the option to use a number or email to create an account. I prefer the option, as many others do.
Telegram, as far as I can tell, does not encrypt information on your device while Wire does.
Telegram does not use TLS to encrypt network traffic, Wire does.
Telegram does not enforce forward secrecy, Wire does.
Telegram, the company can read your messages, Wire… the company, cannot.
With Telegram you cannot verify contact fingerprints, with Wire you can.
And this can keep going. This is not to say that Wire is perfect but it does address things that Telegram and Signal do not. And the old adage that “Everyone else is using it” is not enough, especially in the open source world. However, if Telegram, Signal, and others are right for your needs and they address your concerns, great. As for myself, they do not. And I have no doubt I am not the only one. With that, I think Wire is still worth looking into.
Since July 2016 they are discussing it, and yet it’s not on F-droid. This is one of the most important things that I take into account when deciding which apps to use.
I take into account the developers’ commitment to FOSS. If 2 years is not enough for them to release that software on F-droid, this tells me that it’s not something of big importance to them.
@anon10067017
Very interesting, that you use F-droid as the only standard. Wire had announced for some time that their clients and server code were all completely open source. Free for anyone to review and compile new applications. While not on F-droid, you can install the Wire APK directly to any android device. Their Security White paper also lays out what they clearly are focused on. Interestingly enough, Telegram is on F-droid yet it is not committed to FOSS as evidenced by their closed-source server code alone. Their commitment to security is also patchy at best. So maybe using F-droid alone as a guide may not be the best idea. I would ask that you not limit your criteria to just F-droid and take a more comprehensive look. The prime being an overall secure application. I offer the below for consideration:
On a small note, if you scroll back up earlier in the conversation a person did mention that there were required dependencies for the android application. This is by Google and not wire. This is unique only to android and not other platforms. However that recently Google may no longer require those dependencies. Since this phone is not android based then I hardly find it an issue for the Librem 5.
I agree with you that we should take into account multiple factors I just worded that wrongly. I’ve edited now my first comment to make sure it doesn’t look like that is the only thing that I care about, tho it’s one of the most important ones for me.
Thank you for the clarification. I totally agree with you in that we should take many things into consideration. Thanks for bringing up F-Droid as a possible metric. And that any android version should be checked out before use.
I am sure this is a choice by Wire, if indeed they still use those dependances in their Android application. My question is, why are we even talking about the Android version at all? The purpose of this post was to talk about getting a client that runs on the Librem 5. A client that is Linux based and is secure. Mind you that the Windows, Linux, iOS, & macOS versions do NOT use any such dependencies. So ONLY Android is affected if it still is. That is NOT my concern. So with that in mind talking about the Android version is pointless as this is not an Android phone. So moving forward let’s talk about that and what are the benefits of a mobile LINUX version. That indeed a FOSS compliant version can be made as it is with all the other non-Android applications.
No, they only offer binaries for i386 and amd64, so not for ARM-CPUs, which are used on mobile devices like the Librem 5. And the desktop version is basically a wrapper about the webapp, so it might be quite ressource hungry even if compiled for the proper architecture.
