Please edit the hidden post to include the supporting information.
Thx, done.
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All fine now?
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Yes, thank you.
Hi there,
I am sorry to say this but the way this conversation was handled really does not represent the interests of Purism at all. From what I am seeing here, we have an individual who has been robbed, who has turned to this forum to get attention to their very alarming experience. Their complaint hasn’t been addressed, and has factually been largely ignored, thus suggesting Purism is untrustworthy.
Then we have another individual who suggests options to recover those finances, and directs the OP to exercise consumer protection laws. They apparently were made invisible for making suggestions and indicating that the OP has esentaily describe a crime. This further adds credence to the untrustworthiness of Purism.
Then we have the Phone Developer who has been moderating this conversation. They have ignore the OPs complaint and failed to understand that other consumers are seeing this. They have claimed to act with “civility”, completely disregarding the most uncivilized thing a human being can do to another being is to ignore them. As a potential consumer this shows me that Purism isn’t trustworthy enough to provide me, or anyone with a product… so how could Purism provide effective privacy?
I understand that criticism of people isn’t accepted here, so I expect this post to be hidden from view. However, I feel that for these reasons Purism has become yet another failure for the world of privacy. This post demonstrates lacking accountability by the company, which frankly has failed to solve supply chain issues, has been found a few times to be misleading on its security promises, and the fact that it hasn’t been shut down for its violations of consumer protection law it must be backed by the government.
I am very pleased to say that I am glad I didn’t make any purchases from this company because I can’t understand how its able to remain in business with these practices. I am one consumer you have lost. Thank you for being another failure.
Nah, you can criticize people here. Observe:
It’s not really a dev’s place to do PR work or deal with these sorts of disputes. She’s moderating as objectively as she can in the face of a very hot and emotion-evoking topic involving her employer. She cannot be expected to do any more than that.
But I will agree that the way refunds are being handled (or not, as it were) is utter garbage.
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While I agree with the other things you said, I don’t think it’s fair to make @dcz responsible for any of that. Like you said, they’re a developer and it’s likely not part of their job to handle customer support and they’re probably not even able to grant refunds etc. I suppose they just tried to keep this topic civil in their spare time.
I don’t even think the customer support team is in any way responsible for the whole refund debacle. This is a recurring issue and I can’t imagine that anyone in that team is happy with that. What I think is that there’s a clear internal policy from Purism’s management, which directs customer support and the financial team to deny, delay and not process redunds for as long as possible (even by breaking customer protection laws), maybe because the company is in financial struggle (which still wouldn’t make it ok).
I will clarify that I have no intention of blaming @dcz directly. However, once upon a time customer service involved acknowledgement of a complaint, a commitment to find the solution, and as its now in the public domain… provide that solution publicly.
It does not matter who is responsible for this persons refund. As a customer service representative, @dcz is employed to serve the customer and @dcz should be contacting the police to find OP’s stollen money if their employer can’t be bothered to explain not just to the OP, but to everyone in this conversation where the OPs money has gone. Let alone why it hasn’t been refunded, and what they are going to do to refund the OP.
@dcz, I would like the OWNER of purism THEM-SELF to explain this situation for the OP. Are you able to get Purism’s CEO in here to explain this situation? I want the CEO to PROVE that Purism can be trusted, by personally demonstrating civility in serving the OP, a paying client, & refunding their money with interest. I also personally require finding the employee(s) responsible for this situation and seeing them charged.
In no way did I mean to convey @dcz as a bad person. But, they were very uncivilized by ignoring the OP. As we are talking about privacy, Purism cannot be trusted at this point.
Have you ever considered this thinking?
I am sorry, but my job security is predicated on the company surviving. if the company isn’t resolving issues, or is conducting itself questionably, its actions are more likely to result in creating job insecurity.
More over, the OP has indicated that the moderator’s employer has stollen their money. Now stepping back from specifically naming anyone, IF any company is stealing money, what are they paying their employees with? Proceeds of Crime.
I would also argue that there really isn’t any moderation happening here. The OP has not been acknowledged or seen their concerns heard. The fact is, anyone who has been employed to do nothing, honestly demonstrates more about their quality as a character than any attack or insult I or anyone else can bring up.
The fact is, anyone who actually cares about their job protects the integrity of their employer, which is only possible by holding them accountable. I see that objectively this company is predatorily conducting itself, and cultivates an insecure workplace environment since the moderator feels “unable” to address a SERIOUS legal and public problem.
bottom line, by doing nothing Purism looks less and less credible, to the point these kinds of issues will kill the company. So to infer the the moderator cannot do something, really conveys that the company is vicious and cannablizes itself. Those who remain silent condone the action taken. Thus, the Moderator has clearly conveyed they support the theft of the OP’s money.
Just to be clear, I don’t get paid to moderate the forum, so I don’t feel especially representative of Purism’s hardware business. Direct complaints about moderation to me, sure. Sales - nope, I’m not employed to serve that customer. The alternative is to stop modding cause I want no part in supporting things I know nothing about. I’m neither qualified to anwswer nor paid to do it.
On the other hand, if you have a bug report, then I’m Purism’s representative, I get paid for that.
If you would kindly bugger off, please. Best I can do is to direct you all to support@puri.sm .
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Bottom line is unchanged: noone here can get you your refund. Almost everyone here in this community forum is a customer. If you want money, you have to go through the formal channel of contacting Purism. If you want official technical support, you have to go through the formal channel of contacting Purism. Posting in this forum is not the right way to contact Purism.
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I hadn’t, because it’s speculation and jumping to conclusions. There are even parts that are downright incorrect, but my points have been made by others already.
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Well, your entitled to your opinion, despite it not actually being thought out.
Honestly, This is beyond recovering their money. Sure the OP may have agenda (I would too), but being here and brining up their experience is also about showing other people how the company actually treats its customer base. Its psychological toxic to stop treating people with civility just because money is involved. I don’t think that is acceptable.
I don’t understand why its so difficult for people to see that this conversation is about Purism being dangerous. If you want to talk about the money itself, here’s my question why was the OPs money not as good as your money?
with respect, if purism pays you to work for them… then I stand by my point. If you want to use “departmentalization” to justify how morally or ethically innocent you are despite being paid by a company which seems to be robbing people, all the more power to you.
However, in order to thrive, survive, and grow… people need to work together. Yet this conversation clearly demonstrates that Purism is just as toxic and untrustworthy as the other options out there. Unlike those companies though, purism can’t deliver their promises or product.
I honestly fail to see how purism is going to survive at this rate.
You missed my point. I don’t justify anything - I stay away from things I don’t get paid for, don’t understand, and am not equipped to handle, especially if I would likely make things worse.
You’re entitled to your opinions though.
I think the point that is being attempted to make is not that you should resolve the issue yourself, but rather that you are equipped with knowledge of the issue and knowledge of whom within the company (or at leach which department/group) should be made aware of the issue and in theory could bring the issue to the appropriate people and encourage them to engage in the community.
Realistically, I don’t see any way that the relevant people within purism aren’t aware and in turn it seems more plausible that they are not interested in engaging and improving this particular issue at this time, which would leave you in a position of either not tell the people on the forum you’re passing the information along because nothing of value would come of it or saying openly that you’ve passed the information along and you can’t force the other department to get involved which could be seen as dissenting within the company. I’m not saying any of this is, just what seems plausible based on what Purism chooses not to say and when not to engage.
I do think it is a fair criticism to point out that instead of saying you’d look into it or you’d pass the information along, you’ve instead effectively said that you don’t care enough to look into what’s going on in that other department of the company you work for.
Not that you’re obligated to engage in this way, just that there’s validity to the observation.
Good point. I can say that sales support is not my area, and, regardless of what I might actually do or whether I care, you will neither see evidence of me solving things myself, nor doing anything internally. My responsibility to the community is to care about L5 software, and for a good reason. I try not to make a false impression here.
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Yep. The OP makes clear his agenda in the very first post.
The fact remains that we can speculate all we like about what happened with the OP’s order and how to progress it - but we aren’t the OP and we aren’t Purism, so we just don’t have the info. Nothing will ever be achieved towards the goal of resolving that in this forum … hence that leaves only the agenda.
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again: I would close this topic as pointless (and a duplicate too!). Neither agreement nor progress will ever be achieved.
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