This company is a costumer nightmare.
9 months after initial pre-order, 4 months after refund request and they still hold my money without any plausible justification.
Support keeps telling me to wait and that the refund will be completed in XX time and every time they don’t comply.
This is the worst experience i ever had as a consumer no doubt.
Never taking this company seriously ever again and i advise you be very careful where you put your money into.
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I’m really surprised that Purism hasn’t directly addressed these refund issues at all. The reports on this forum that Purism is delaying refunds for weeks or months after refund conditions (spot in queue has been reached and device is ready to be shipped) have been satisfied (in one case telling the customer that his refund will be processed in May 2022) are concerning.
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i never experienced it anywhere else.
it’s anti consumer to hold one’s money for close to a year with no justification.
i know i am not the only one and it’s absurd.
my mistake was giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting >2 months else i would’ve just filed a visa dispute to get my transaction reversed
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If I were to request a refund from Purism, I would send them a certified letter with a thirty day period in which to provide me with that refund. I would spend that thirty days working with my state’s Attorney General and finding other ways to make things very painful when they don’t comply with my refund demand within those thirty days. On day thirty-one, I would unleash every method of recourse possible. By somewhere between day thirty-five to day forty, Todd would probably tell his staff to send me an immediate refund as that would be the least painful path for Purism to take at that point. When a state attorney General, the Securities and Exchange Commission, a small-claims court, city business licensing, and every media source that will listen, all contact Purism at once, all quoting my name and what I said and am saying, Purism will decide it’s just easier to issue a refund to make me go away. If not, my goal would be to use all legal means available to continue going after them until I either get my refund or they are driven out of business. I think that Purism is skirting a lot of significant laws and it wouldn’t take much pressure of this type to break the camel’s back. It’s really sad that this could become necessary. If Purism acted ethically, it wouldn’t be necessary.
The sad part is that if anyone (or group of people) are successful at getting a state Attorney General or SEC investigation started and committed to doing a serious investigation, any refund made to any individual won’t matter. It’ll probably be impossible to stop that freight train at that point.
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It might be helpful to say what you pre-ordered i.e. what product.
yea the problem here is that im outside of the us so i dont ahve access to the attorney office.
and i already filled complains everywhere i can and to every consumer protection program i found. Still looking for more alternatives but theres a limit to what i can do
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librem 14, i have a previous detailed post about it
9 months? They’ve had my money for 2 years. And some other people’s money for longer.
I agree with you, of course.
Purism is delaying refunds because they are unable to meet their obligations as they fall due (as demonstrated by the fact that they are not meeting their obligations as they fall due). They will only give the odd refund here and there when someone really makes the effort … an effort of the kind StevenR is describing. Which is probably so much effort and requiring so much time that the cost of your time exceeds the value of the refund - assuming you get it. Purism knows that, which is presumably why they are being obstructive in this fashion. To be fair to Purism, this is a common tactic employed by many large corporates - telecomms, utilities, courier companies, etc.
I also suspect Purism are only shipping the odd phone here and there … and everyone who is reporting they have received their phone is like a lottery winner … perhaps not quite one in a million, but maybe one in a thousand and unlikely IMO to be more than one in a hundred. It’s just for show. I don’t believe they are anywhere near being able to ship anything like close to all the phones that have been prepaid for, not just now, but ever, because they have spent the money needed to buy the components on other things - salaries mainly, I suspect.
This kind of a scheme always comes unstuck in the end. And in the end, no one will be the winner - even if you got your phone, it won’t be supported because the company surely won’t be around once the fecal matter hits the ventilator. And even if you get your refund, you’ll have to put so much effort into getting it, it won’t be worth it and by the time you get it, inflation will have further eroded the value of the dollars you get back (it already has to a large degree). I think at this point there is no way to win. Get some other phone. Maybe get a de-Googled phone from Brax.me or get the Pinephone, or just buy an old Nokia 3310 (the original one, not the remake).
Do tell me if I got any of it wrong, and if so, why. I’ll be happy to be corrected and even happier if I’m wrong.
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if that’s the case how have they not gone bankrupt yet and are still legally running and taking orders when all that happens for years?
Purism is still taking orders and making up excuses about why most of us are not getting what we paid for. Before the pandemic started, Purism knew exactly how many pre-orders they had to fill. Unlike most companies who need to speculate about future demand, Purism had an exact number and it was very very big. So then the pandemic hits and Purism is caught by surprise. So there was no product ramp-up to speak of, before the pandemic hit. How stupid can they be to not ramp up production when the product is ready and some shipping has started? That’s why I believe that the pandemic is just Purism’s latest excuse. They weren’t planning to ship product in volume anyway, even when they had a completed and product and before there was a pandemic.
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StevenR, Should you end up following the strategy you outlined, please keep us posted.
The only thing i haven’t done was talk to a lawyer but i am ready to if they don’t pay me back by next week
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A part of that strategy would doubtlessly involve putting up some kind of platform, and/or as a part of an attorney’s website, from which to tell the story and to communicate everything in real time. I wouldn’t expect Purism to host that kind of content, nor should anyone trust that they would be willing to. So keeping people here posted is probably something that wouldn’t happen, at least not for more than one bomb-dropping post until it gets promptly deleted. But if effective, it would surface publicly and be easy to find in the media.
If you’re going to do something like this, you’ve got to do it right. There is a lot more at stake than just my refund and there is strength in numbers. It’s also a matter of principal. Money collecting schemes with little to no delivery are a public blight. It sets a bad precedent and encourages more of the same. No matter how good the cause (or story being told as a means), there are limits to how much any company can exploit the public and not eventually pay the price.
One advantage of a lawsuit in such a case could also be the drawing out of secret information, in to the public domain. For example, if a subpoena required Purism to disclose their total number of phones sold, numbers shipped, and funds available to finance existing orders, then Purism would be forced to disclose that information. The next day, those numbers could be published anywhere, and discussed publicly, and used by the public to decide for themselves whether or not they feel taken advantage of. In a case where the public is the victem and has legal standing, it would be impossible in most cases to get a judge to restrain the plaintiff side of the suit from disclosing what they’ve found via subpoena, to the public.
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12 Months later and Purism still has my money … but they delivered! They delivered the promise to give me an exceptional phone some time after order and conducting the payment.
So yes, I obtained what I asked for:
The promise to get the most Free phone on earth, the only one with Free Software and Free Hardware up to the most possible extend. The one and only certified by FSF, a.f.a.i.k.
I can complaint I still can not use it. True.
But I can not pretend I would have expected to get the device swift after buying it.
If someone does not like it - do a better job yourself and let me know where to place my order.
Up to that point - support your one and only Free Hardware Phone producer.
Just my humble opinion.
Sorry for bad language, not my mothertongue.
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the point of the post was not if they delivered the product or not.
it’s about how many laws, return policiy and FTC rules they are breaking daily to consumers.
waiting 6 months after asking a refund and not even have a clear answer to why or when you will see your money is not ok.
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I think at this point, I have to conclude that Purism is a Ponzi scheme (taking money from new “members” to deliver the odd phone for a small fraction of earlier members), so we should just bring them down so they stop scamming more people. The amount of work required to write to the AG and to sue them is a lot, much more than the $800 (or whatever you paid for your phone) is worth, but what may be worth it is the satisfaction of knowing you participated in the stopping of scammers.
it could be less if we all pitched in.
And yea the definition of ponzi scheme is basically taking new customers to fill the previous ones
So I guess in telling people not to order from them, I’m reducing my chances of ever getting my phone.
OK, so be it.
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To be honest, I think the odds of us ever receiving a phone in a state which is both functional, technologically current and delivering on the promise (privacy + privacy we can trust) are pretty slim at this point.
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