Batch Fir (Version 2) of Librem 5


#1

How will the Version 2 of the Librem 5 look? I’d rather not wait another year for Batch Fir just for a better phone but that I feel looks worse than Version 1. Are there any plans to release the design of Version 2?

There are so many question I need answered right now lol. My mind is going crazy.

I know there will be a FAQ. Please include this question, or atleast similar to this. You could create a new forum post asking us to submit questions for you to use in FAQ.


#2

Most smartphone manufacturers don’t know how their next-gen phone will look over a year before release, so I’d guess it’s the same for Purism.


#3

Most certainly it will basically look the same as the Evergreen line.
Purism is not in the “planned obsolescence” bussiness that creates needless “innovations” or fashion every year.
The Librem laptops have only minor changes, but the phone has much less elements on the outside.

The more interesting question is, how will the upcoming batches really turn out to look like?
Can’t wait to find out :heart_eyes:


#4

…and even more important…what will be this 14nm next-gen CPU? I can’t find anything bigger than i.MX8M Mini with 14nm. I really hope Purism knows more than we do and this means we get an i.MX8M 14nm. :sunglasses:


#5

I’m pretty certain it means exactly that, but they don’t have the freedom to share the details with us (as the Linux Gamer says in his video about the schedule).
Before that, I think Todd was saying somewhere they have a clear upgrade path, as NXP is planning to do exactly this.


#6

14nm CPU very likely i.MX 8M Mini
In compare this CPUs:
https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-processors/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8m-family-armcortex-a53-cortex-m4-audio-voice-video:i.MX8M
https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-processors/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8m-mini-arm-cortex-a53-cortex-m4-audio-voice-video:i.MX8MMINI

I see that v2 will be

worse in

  • performance: less cache, slower memory, cropped Open CL, old OpenGL, less HW codecs, lower resolution only 1080p.
  • integrity (not in CPU but should be implemented by external chips): dont support USB-C, HDMI, only 1 camera interface.

better in

  • consumption (there were cases when it got worse in lower process)
  • may be faster second coCPU with FPU (but this information is inconsistent).

So summary I think Librem 5 v2 will be a lite version of mainstream Librem 5


#7

I don’t think so. They investigated the MX MINI as an alternative early this year because of the power consumption problems with the MX.
They only possibility would be if they hit some major problems with the MX but then they wouldn’t be launching the phone with it, would they?


#8

Any way we cant make right choice now without actual information about this words: “14nm Next Generation CPU”
PS. I replace my conclusion in prevision post


#9

I would be willing to wait for batch fir if it’s the i.MX 8M Quad with a 14nm process. The mini doesn’t seem worth the loss in video functionality.

Dedicated video acceleration saves power more often than not.


#10

I guess that “14nm Next Generation CPU” translation within NXP dictionary would be “Nano” and therefore the whole wording here would be the one (Quad) from the new “NXP i.MX8 Nano” processor family supporting the new Platform Security Architecture (PSA) Certification.


#12

Why are you talking about nano and mini? i never saw a newest version of a thing to be less powerfull than the previous version.
I hope @todd-weaver or @nicole.faerber will say something more about that since we must make a choice before shipment


#13

No, we are not talking about the Nano there.
We know, from unofficial talks with NXP, that they will release a successor of the i.MX8M Quad sometime next year, likely beginning of next year, which will get the updated silicon process and some other feature upgrades, but it will be downward feature compatible with the i.MX8M Quad - so no regression, only improvements in many ways. We do not yet know how this will be called etc. and even if we knew, we would not be able to share this information (yet).

Cheers
nicole


#14

Thank you very much nicole that’s what i was hoping for


#15

Features Comparison Chart for i.MX 8 Series and Layerscape® LS 1012A and LS1028A Processors

Only for information about difference of published CPUs with 4x cores:

Features i.MX 8M Quad i.MX 8M Mini Quad i.MX 8M Nano Quad
4xCPU Cortex®-A53 1.5GHz 1.8GHz 1.5GHz
Cache L2,
On-chip RAM
1MB ECC,
160KB
512KB ECC,
256KB
512KB ECC,
512KB
CPU (1xCortex-M) M4@266 MHz M4@400 MHz M7@600 MHz
External Memory Interfaces 1x16LPDDR4-2400,
DDR3L-1866,
1x32LPDDR4-3200,
DDR4-2400,
DDR3L-1600,
2xQuadSPI,
8-bit NAND,
16/32-bit NOR


1x32LPDDR4-3000,
DDR4-2400,
DDR3L-1600,
2xQuadSPI,
8-bit NAND,
16/32-bit NOR


1x16LPDDR4-3200,
DDR4-2400,
DDR3L-1600,
2xQuadSPI,
8-bit NAND,
16/32-bit NOR
eMMC/
SDIO
2×eMMC 5.0/
SD 3.0
3×eMMC 5.1/
SDIO 3.0
3×eMMC 5.1/
SDIO 3.0
PCI Express 2xPCIe 2.0 with L1 low-power substate and PHY (1-lane) 1xPCIe 2.0 with L1 low-power substate and PHY (1-lane) No
Display Interface 1xHDMI 2.0a (ARC/eDP), 1xMIPI-DSI (4-Lane) 1xMIPI-DSI (4-Lane) 1xMIPI-DSI (4-Lane)
LCD Resolution 1x4Kp60 HDR and 1x1080p60 1x1080p60 1x1080p60
Hardware Video Acceleration up to 4Kp60 HEVC H.265, VP9 with HDR Dolby Vision® decode*;
software encode on Cortex-A-53
1080p60 HEVC/H.265, VP9, VP8, H.264 decode*;
1080p60 H.264, VP8 encode*
No
Digital Audio Interface 4xSAI (2Tx + 2Rx external I2S lanes, 32-bit up to 192 KHz),
1xESAI/MQS,
1xS/PDIF Tx/Rx,
2xASRC
6xSAI (10Tx + 14Rx external I2S lanes): Each lane up to 24.576 MHz BCLK (32-bit, 2-ch. 384 KHz, up to 32-ch. TDM);
DSD512
5xSAI (12Tx + 16Rx external I2S lanes): Each lane up to 24.576 MHz BCLK (32-bit, 2-ch. 384 KHz, up to 32-ch. TDM);
DSD512 4Tx + 4Rx support 49.152 MHz BCLK for 768 KHz; 8-ch. PDM digital microphone input
Hardware 2D/3D Graphics Acceleration 1xGC7000Lite
(4shader) OpenGL ES 3.1, Vulkan,OpenCL 1.2
1xGCNanoUltra 3D
(1shader) OpenGL ES 2.0, 1xGC328 2D
1xGC7000UltraLite
(2shaders) OpenGL ES 3.1, Vulkan, OpenCL 1.2
Camera Sensor Interface (CSI) 2xMIPI-CSI (4-Lane, 1.5 Gbit/lane) 1xMIPI-CSI (4-Lane, 1.5 Gbit/lane) 1xMIPI-CSI (4-Lane, 1.5 Gbit/lane)
Universal Asynchronous Reciever/ Transmitter (UART) 5xUART (5Mbps) 4xUART (5Mbps) 4xUART (5Mbps)
USB Controller 1 × USB 3.0/2.0 with PHY(OTG),
1 × USB 2.0 with PHY (OTG)
2xUSB 3.0/2.0 (OTG) Type C with PHY 2xUSB 2.0 (OTG) with PHY
Power Management PMIC PF4210 PMIC PMIC
Package 17x17 FC-BGA (621) 0.65 mm pitch 14x14 FC-BGA 0.5 mm pitch (depopulated) *pincompatible with i.MX 8M Nano 14x14 package 14x14 FC-BGA 0.5 mm pitch (depopulated) *pincompatible with i.MX 8M Mini 14x14 package
Process 28 nm HPC 14 nm LPC FinFET 14 nm LPC FinFET

#16

On the contrary. Indeed, we can. If they get the 14nm processor, it’s gonna be faster and more efficient. That’s why it says “next generation”. That’s the pattern with all flagship chipsets in the world. Smaller, faster & more power efficient.


#17

current-generation is 7nm for AMD and next-generation would be 5nm or less. 14nm is a few years old already especially in the mobile-space but if it’ll be better heat/energy manged i would not care if it’s 28nm still. what matters is if it’s 100% (or getting closer) free-software.


#18

Thanks @nicole.faerber for confirming that it will be an improved i.MX 8M Quad and not a low-powered i.MX 8M mini. I suspected, but it is nice to have it confirmed, rather than letting us endlessly speculate.

I’m would love to see an NXP mobile chip that can compete with the upcoming Rockchip RK3358, but mobile phones simply aren’t their target audience. Maybe if the Librem 5 has a 1 million orders, NXP can be convinced to make some high-powered mobile processors.


#19

I agree. The RK3358 has 4x Cortex-A76 and 4x Cortex-A55 cores but I wish we will have for Librem 5 v2 just 4x Cortex-A55 cores. And, as you @amosbatto suggested within your link, the new DynamIQ multi-core scheme might be included with the Quad Cortex-A55 processor. Maybe I am just dreaming here, but don’t get me wrong as I am anyway looking forward what NXP eventually (in February 2020) might offer as a compatible “that can compete” mobile chip for the next Librem 5.


#20

Their newspost says: “Mechanical Design: Version 2”, which seems to suggest that the case will be different.


#21

“revised” :stuck_out_tongue: