Battery? - what battery?

[Sharon]

@dos

Everyone keeps telling you that you need to adjust the brightness etc. before taking the photo as the default will definitely be too dark indoors

Everyone has NOT been telling me to adjust the brightness.

@dos

and you keep ignoring that.

Why was I not subpoenaed for the trial? Guilty of ignoring people without even a hearing? I’m NOT ignoring people. Maybe you missed my responses.

@dos

Are you doing it or not?

YES I have been “doing it” Have you been reading my responses or not?

I have also followed all the tasks set before me. I read 145 lines of FAQs to find my question wasn’t there. I’ve installed 'wares as instructed and ran the program and responded. I looked for docs, manuals, tip and tricks, before entering here. Only then did I dare step into the rabbits hole.
~

[dos]

@Sharon

YES I have been “doing it”

Can you tell us exactly how are you doing it?

I just took two photos indoors, with pretty dim lightning in the middle of the night (no flash), with the same phone as yours using the same camera app as you use. The second one was done after adjusting the sliders for gain and exposure to their maximum values. See for yourself why your picture makes me extremely suspicious about whether the sliders have been actually adjusted.

[dcz]

@Sharon

And, only outdoors and on good sunny days, no snow, while whatever it is we’re taking a picture of doesn’t move. “Hold that pose you two - while I set this up to take the pic of the Groom kissing the bride.” Awww she looks so good in her YELLOW gown!

Congrats, you won the Purism Forum Irony Prize. As a reward, I’ll pull my “I’m Not Customer Support” card and leave you alone.

Bonus prize: the sliders work exactly like they do on any manual camera. There’s plenty tutorials for that if you care, unless those never worked for the past 100 years either.

[irvinewade]

@dos

I just took two photos indoors, with pretty dim lightning in the middle of the night

Didn’t @‌doscat complain about that?

[raenrfm]

I’m sure he obtained consent before posting those pictures…lol.

@Sharon I understand you are frustrated, but there is an old saying “you catch more flies with honey”. The constant barrage of sarcastic disparaging comments will not serve you well when seeking help from the very people that designed the phone, a remarkable feat by a small group of people. If that isn’t possible then perhaps purchasing this phone for you was a mistake.

[dos]

@irvinewade

Didn’t @‌doscat complain about that?

It was dim exactly because I didn’t want to change the conditions and disrupt the nap just to take an unimportant photo. Moving this close to him was already disruptive enough

[amarok]

Even if he didn’t let on, he knew you were there in his space.

Best sleep with one eye open from here on out, human!

[dos]

oh, he sure knew. He greeted me with a big yawn before deciding that apparently it’s nothing important and going back to sleep

[Sharon]

Maybe, if some stopped dishing it out, they wouldn’t be served the same left overs.
Maybe, if they answered my questions (only 2) they wouldn’t be so biting in their reply.
Maybe, if they would believe me, instead of telling me what I didn’t do.
Maybe, if they stopped assuming they are the only person with the right answer and read what others say, they wouldn’t be so accusatory.

You’re right. I fell for the ad, and I’ve got a clock. My bad. But I’m not apologizing.

[Sharon]

@dos

Can you tell us exactly how are you doing it?

No, but I’ll tell you:

1 - from the desktop - click on “Camera (Dev” Camera loads.
2 - Turn 'Torch" on. It’s Yellow light. See the pic I posted #57. If I don’t turn it on, there is no light.
3 - Get very close to target so LEDs light up target (10" - 12" ) Too close and it’s all blurry.
4 - Steady the camera - push the white button @ bottom of screen. There is no knowing if it took a pic; no click, no buzz, no blinking. Check folder. If it’s not there, try again.
5 - done.

I received a reply that said I should push exposure up all the way. The pic in post #57 was taken in the steps above with exposure highest.
CATching up on replies, I set everything up to highest level. Too bright for outside, just goes white.

Again, I expected too much, was told not to, and tried to make this as best I could. With your help I have all the information I need for now.

Big BUT here. This does not look like the camera screen with sliders before. Before, I seem to remember, the sliders were size of the tiny font at the top. Today, they are up bigger, and above the camera button. It is much easier to work with the bigger sliders.

Today, I have taken several pics indoors very near target. Went outside, and fiddled with the settings, and got - images-.

Thank you for your time. I very much appreciate it. It’s not a camera I will use much because of the settings I need to make with each target, indoors, and outdoors being so lighting dependent.

I’ve learned that it’s all a work in progress and not to expect much - I expected too much, thanks to ads. I know better.

[SIDEBAR]
I went into a local store to buy a better cable for phone. And the young clerk saw the phone and recognized it, called it by name “L5” and said how much he’d like to get one. Word is getting around for sure, if the fellow in the store knew about it. This is good.
[/SIDEBAR]

Again, many thanks
~s

[dos]

@Sharon

Thank you for your time. I very much appreciate it. It’s not a camera I will use much because of the settings I need to make with each target, indoors, and outdoors being so lighting dependent.

Then the good news is that a version of the camera app that does all of this automatically already exists. It’s not available yet as an update because of some bugs that need to be figured out first, but it’s something that’s pretty much around the corner now.

[Privacy2]

@dcz

Bonus prize: the sliders work exactly like they do on any manual camera. There’s plenty tutorials for that if you care, unless those never worked for the past 100 years either.

Did you say “any manual camera” and “100 years”? Since you’re giving out the “Irony Prize”, I think you should get the “Exaggeration Award” or the “Sarcasm Award” … the latter of which I might claim as a runner-up:

The only manual camera that I’m familiar with has an ISO setting, an aperture setting as given by an f-stop, and an exposure time, and there was a focus that was a nice twist knob and prismatic lens tools to allow one to set that easily. The only obvious overlap in those manual settings is “exposure time”. And while I suppose ISO roughly corresponds to “gain”, we usually matched the ISO setting to the film speed itself and there is no direct correspondence. And even on that camera it had a light meter and a depth-of-field test (so that one could easily determine the range of focus to adjust the aperture and the light meter provided an estimate the necessary exposure time for the given f-stop). Of course in those days you wanted to get it just right because film was expensive to buy and develop and you had to wait a week to see the results…

I’ll tell you what, even with the worst settings on that camera, I may have gotten grainy or dark pictures, but I never got anything resembling the neon green / neon yellow of some of the shots above.

So perhaps you too could tone it down unless you really mean “any manual camera” over “100 years”.
The fact is that until the software is updated to have automatic settings and/or recommendations
of the settings, the Librem 5’s camera is not fully functional simply because those functions are expected
to be available these days … even on cameras that allow manual settings. The fact that people here aren’t admitting that is part of why everyone is so testy.

[dcz]

@Privacy2

have automatic settings […] The fact that people here aren’t admitting that

@dcz

For some it might work in maybe a month when we iron out some issues blocking automated settings.

Hmm.

I don’t know what in the other quote contradicts that gain, exposure, focus and white balance are manual and found in some combination on all manual cameras. I’ll take the sarcasm award though.

[Gavaudan]

@Privacy2

So perhaps you too could tone it down unless you really mean “any manual camera” over “100 years”.
The fact is that until the software is updated to have automatic settings and/or recommendations
of the settings, the Librem 5’s camera is not fully functional simply because those functions are expected
to be available these days … even on cameras that allow manual settings

You complain about the use of inexact language and then, in the next breath, conflate “fully functional” with “not autonomous,” which is like saying a car with a manual transmission is not “fully functional” because the driver has to shift the gears.

[Privacy2]

@dcz

I don’t know what in the other quote contradicts that gain, exposure, focus and white balance are manual and found in some combination on all manual cameras.

I gave an example of my non digital manual camera – the kind that uses film. Except for “exposure” the manual settings on a film camera are completely different than for a digital camera. You did say
“work exactly like they do on any manual camera … for the past 100 years”.

@dcz

@dcz

For some it might work in maybe a month when we iron out some issues blocking automated settings.

Hmm.

Fair enough.

[Privacy2]

@Gavaudan

You complain about the use of inexact language and then, in the next breath, conflate “fully functional” with “not autonomous,” which is like saying a car with a manual transmission is not “fully functional” because the driver has to shift the gears.

No it is “not like saying” that. Why? There are still a lot of cars with manual transmissions, while
I don’t know of a single mainstream phone that doesn’t default to automatic camera settings. It’s
about expectations of functionality.

[Gavaudan]

It’s rather about expectations of operation. The camera is fully functional. You’re arguing that it isn’t fully operational. I would be inclined to actually agree with the latter.

[Sharon]

When we talk about cameras these days…

“If you want a smartphone built outside China and the walled gardens of Google and Apple, Purism’s Librem 5 USA may be for you.”

IMO:
That whole section may lead one to believe L5 does what the others do, but without stalkers.
If one were to go one-on-one and compare, no offense to Puri, but L5 is not a 'smartphone - mildly clever maybe, but not smart - not yet anyway.

Ad: “Like a good wine, it will probably get better over time, not worse.”

“probably”? It’s not criticism - it’s a suggestion that Puri rethink that sentence.

IMO:
The expectation is that the camera operated the same as the other phones since all 3 are grouped as being ‘smartphones’. The Starting at $1,999 price strongly suggests everything is, as pointed out in the ad, comparable to the other 2. The only difference being debated is the operational/functional. Changing the settings all the time doesn’t make sense to me when today’s digital phone cameras require very little attention. Snap, send, done.

I’m eagerly awaiting the possible release of 'ware that will help automate it, which I think is the goal.

I sense the attitude towards the camera seems to be it is good enough - move on. I hope that one day it becomes the best on the block and more price competitive.

I got my first voice spam on the L5 the other day. Things are looking up
~s

[amarok]

@Sharon

L5 is not a 'smartphone

In my opinion, the L5 is a smarter phone than most smartphones.

Sure, it still needs refining, especially the camera functionality, but it can already do many, many things that Androids and iPhones can’t do (or have not been allowed to do, because it might hurt certain companies’ ad revenue).

@Sharon

I sense the attitude towards the camera seems to be it is good enough - move on

I have to politely disagree with you there. Purism’s devs have put a lot of work into making it function on, at least, a basic level, and continue to refine it, as has already been noted.

@Sharon

The expectation

Yeah, I think they’ve created the expectation, especially for those who haven’t followed along from initial release through today, that all the functionality is advanced and at least on par with conventional smartphones. For the general, uninformed phone-buying public, this is continuing to create disappointment and anger, due to their expectations…and the marketing.

[Gavaudan]

Right, the phone isn’t where they said it would be (yet™) and I agree that it should operate better if it wants to gain any real traction. If it helps, the current hardware’s documentation is poor to the point of having together it operating from scratch, and where it is is as far as they’ve gotten as of today. It’s fully functional (can take pictures) as far as cameras go, but I would not argue that it’s user-friendly or even, by and large, user-agreeable. Should it be at this point? Depends on who you ask. Beyond that it’s a question of expectation and whether those expectations are justified or not, and since everyone is different with different interpretations, I’m not going to argue either way. But they did say “may” and “probably” in your two quotes, so take it with salt, I guess.