Car software closed source

Oh, it does re-routing and I’m sure it has it’s own GPS receiver, but it literally knows the posted speed limit, not just my speed and the average speed of other vehicles via wideband radio. I could believe that it had downloaded Google Maps info when it was connected by the wife’s phone and that may include speed limits, the dash displayed speed limit was never wrong on a 300 mile trip the other day. It would only be able to do that if it was updating the map data as we drove.

Next time, I drive the car on a long trip (by myself), I’ll ensure that there isn’t a sneaky connection in play.

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This information is available as geographical information (map overlay).

The only way you could use it to prove that the car itself has a cellular network connection is to see that it is getting geographical information updates while knowing that

  • it has not been connected to your or your wife’s phone in any way
  • it has not been in for service

(and for there to be updates, a posted speed limit would have to have changed).

So, in respect of bullet point 1, if you pair the phone with the car in order to make or receive calls via the car while in the car or in order to play audio from the phone to the car then, with a black box phone and black box car, it is difficult to rule out that the car grabbed a map update via the phone while paired.

Modern smart cities are putting transmitters in the road network itself to provide the posted speed limit (and a corresponding receiver in the car).

I would keep an open mind as to whether your car does or does not have a cellular network connection.

Hence …

:+1:

We should not have to guess.

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I seriously doubt the car would download map updates from the phone via Bluetooth, as they can be quite large and Bluetooth is still pretty slow (not to mention the possibility of exceeding a drivers data limit and costing them money for the excess usage).

@Photon I see no compelling reason for you to be concerned about your wife’s car. If it makes you feel better, my father’s 10 year old Garmin knows posted speed limits, too, as did my aftermarket stereo, and they both relied on map info loaded on an SD card. I don’t remember if the Garmin offers to re-route, but my stereo did whenever I was going slow for some set amount of time in a place where the speed limit was significantly higher than my travel speed. And hell, even my GPS-connected radar detector knows how fast I’m going.

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I have my doubts too but it was about proving it or ruling it out. Obviously Hotspot via Bluetooth is possible.

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But not feasible. If feasibility is irrelevant, then why even discuss this?

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There is camera built-in behind the windshield, take a closer look (or check owner’s manual). It reads Maximum Speed signs on the move (informs Navigation system as well), I have no doubts.

This feature is, in particular, called FordPass Connect and: “Live Traffic access is free for the first 2 years following the purchase of a new Ford featuring SYNC 3 with navigation; thereafter there is an annual licence fee.” Sorry, but I need to agree with what @kieran already wrote here: “You paid for it when you paid for the car”.

I agree and hope that these September 15 – 16, 2020 events will bring some light to us:


This is true (no map download over Bluetooth when using mobile broadband). And, I already talked about Garmin solutions because they use two approaches that doesn’t involve integrated (e)SIM like solutions for automated live traffic support, current info (like car accident in two minutes ahead that you cannot reroute anyway, yet eventually stop your car on time if necessary) needed when counting down distance to your destination as safe as possible.

I brought Garmin solutions for consideration as for example solution from TomTom (TRUCKER 6000) that provides services via built-in SIM card was not something that might help here (other than to understand how things that are usable in practical sense work). Optionally:

If there is no effort to bring Real-time Traffic Info software solution integrated into Librem 5 than I consequently agree with what @reC already mentioned, suggested not to buy:

or with what @Gavaudan already wrote here (if you buy built-in Navigation):

With emphasis on neither receive (what needed in order to avoid traffic jams or similar). Still, as @kieran mentioned, if you own car with built-in SIM than there is no way you will avoid spying when and where you drive your car (as you prepaid for this, “free” usage for at least two years, offer). Please, every individual needs to think precisely over this topic way before it is too late (what to share or/and what to receive when in traffic and how):

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That was really long, but also really appreciated. We bought the car from a Ford dealer when it was almost 2 years old, but with very low miles and a very low price. It didn’t come with the usual manuals and I haven’t gotten around to downloading and researching everything. I learned a lot from your post.

HD Traffic explains a lot of what I am seeing. I knew about HD radio in theory, but I didn’t think I’d ever seen one. Now I suppose the head unit in the Focus is HD, but the only real indication to the driver is that the radio will display song or other info from the station – if we are close enough to the transmitter. It isn’t something I noticed before, as we live way out in the tules. What it doesn’t do is let us tune digital sub-channels, which I thought was part and parcel of HD radio.

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well yeah, but not every individual that drives a car i somebody ABLE to process decisions at the level required by your example … most will just give up when they realize what is required for such an informed decision to take place …

i need an open-source car that i can drive around WITHOUT breaking the law or that might trample MY or OTHER peoples RIGHTS …

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Not hard to find, as long as you don’t mind driving a car made before 1975. Pretty soon the meaning of a “classic” car will be any car that doesn’t have spyware preinstalled and cameras pointed at the driver.

I find it so funny how Tesla owners brag about all the sensors and the great internet connectivity in their cars. I have no doubt that monitoring every second that you drive will help Telsa train its autonomous driving AI, but I don’t want to be the guinea pig feeding all my personal data to Tesla servers.

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the thing is there are some snooptube people that are notorious for pitching the “electric-model” car but don’t speak about the many OTHER cons of purchasing one …

they mainly say just … “it’s on the expensive side … but the TCO is lower over time”

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Thanks for the encouraging info. Besides, I’ve just put this on my wish (dream about) list:

Is this something to take into account, is it feasible to count on? To me this looks promising: https://www.automotivelinux.org/about/members/.

@Gavaudan, please help out, are 2020 Subaru Legacy and 2020 Subaru Outback models the ones that you purposely referred to:

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The particular Subaru I was referring to was a 2020 WRX.

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Thanks, enjoy anyway! I might bet that the next WRX will have Starlink infotainment platform on board and I’m very glad that Subaru supports Linux community.

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I’m pretty sure mine does, but I don’t use it because I don’t want my car connected to the internet. I’d rather Subaru nor anyone else know where I’ve been or what my oil life is or whatever “helpful” information gets sent to the cloud.

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Sorry to necro this, but in my case it actually does read the signs. I know this because it often misreads the signs (e.g., a sign at the edge of town noting a default speed limit that doesn’t apply to the major road I am on, gets read as being a speed limit); I also know this because for a couple of weeks a particular sign on my commute was down (raising the speed limit) and the car would continue to display the prior speed limit). It’s not consulting a database (which at least wouldn’t impinge on my privacy provided the database is in my car); it’s not phoning home to get the correct info.

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I have to admit I haven’t read this thread trough but cars currently are potentially connected to net (at least in EU) due to requirement of automated emergency call (all new cars since 2018). So new cars at least have a link.

Second thing of interest to this thread is - because at a glance, I don’t think it has come up - a research from last fall by Mozilla foundation about just how creepy and invasive the automotive industry is slurping up driver/passenger data (this was made from the American market and EU may have it a bit better with GDPR requirements curbing the most egregious practices, but potentially same tech is used here):

It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy

Here are some of the highlights, which are a lot, but I encourage to read the report (bolded emphasis from the report page):

The gist is: they can collect super intimate information about you – from your medical information, your genetic information, to your “sex life” (seriously), to how fast you drive, where you drive, and what songs you play in your car – in huge quantities. They then use it to invent more data about you through “inferences” about things like your intelligence, abilities, and interests.

most (84%) of the car brands we researched say they can share your personal data – with service providers, data brokers, and other businesses we know little or nothing about. Worse, nineteen (76%) say they can sell your personal data.

All but two of the 25 car brands we reviewed earned our “ding” for data control, meaning only two car brands, Renault and Dacia (which are owned by the same parent company) say that all drivers have the right to have their personal data deleted.

A failure to properly address cybersecurity might explain their frankly embarrassing security and privacy track records. We only looked at the last three years, but still found plenty to go on with 17 (68%) of the car brands earning the “bad track record” ding for leaks, hacks, and breaches that threatened their drivers’ privacy.

Some not-so-fun facts about these rankings: :warning:

  • Tesla is only the second product we have ever reviewed to receive all of our privacy “dings.” (The first was an AI chatbot we reviewed earlier this year.) What set them apart was earning the “untrustworthy AI” ding. The brand’s AI-powered autopilot was reportedly involved in 17 deaths and 736 crashes and is currently the subject of multiple government investigations.

  • Nissan earned its second-to-last spot for collecting some of the creepiest categories of data we have ever seen. It’s worth reading the review in full, but you should know it includes your “sexual activity.” Not to be out done, Kia also mentions they can collect information about your “sex life” in their privacy policy. Oh, and six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics.” Yes, reading car privacy policies is a scary endeavor.

  • None of the car brands use language that meets Mozilla’s privacy standard about sharing information with the government or law enforcement, but Hyundai goes above and beyond. In their privacy policy, it says they will comply with “lawful requests, whether formal or informal.” That’s a serious red flag.

  • All of the car brands on this list except for Tesla, Renault, and Dacia signed on to a list of Consumer Protection Principles from the US automotive industry group ALLIANCE FOR AUTOMOTIVE INNOVATION, INC. The list includes great privacy-preserving principles such as “data minimization,” “transparency,” and “choice.” But the number of car brands that follow these principles? Zero. It’s interesting if only because it means the car companies do clearly know what they should be doing to respect your privacy even though they absolutely don’t do it.

What’s the solution? Public transport, bike or old car (which preferably has been converted to an electric one)? :walking_man: :walking_woman: :walking_man: :walking_woman: :biking_man: :biking_woman: :bus: :bus: :steam_locomotive: :train: :train:

(Just how much sex are people having in their cars and can someone pay to get their data amended so it looks like they are having more fun? :wink:)

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It has come up elsewhere on the Purism community forums.

Thank you for finding this thread for me; I was having a difficult time remembering it earlier.

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I unfortunately own a new spy mobile. I’ve done what I can to forbid it from doing things.

One of the more annoying things is they got rid of the Aux jack for the stereo. With it, I could simply plug my phone’s headphone output to the stereo, control what’s playing from the phone, and the stereo would simply mindlessly play what it’s being fed.

Instead, if I want my music on the car, I need to use bluetooth or android auto or apple play (the last being moot for me, I have an android spyphone for now).

Fortunately (?) my cellphone provider made my prior phone obsolete, forcing me to buy a new Android Spyphone (I bought the cheapest one), so I could basically reset and lobotomize the old phone. It has no sim card, so I removed every app that has nothing to do with playing music (that it would let me uninstall), then loading my music library onto it. It’s rather like a retro iPod at that point. I bluetoothed that to the car.

I still want to snip the wires to the antenna, and will once the warranty runs out. Also the in-cabin microphone needs a kill switch.

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Public transport is often not privacy orientated. Cameras around the bus, tram or train rooms where you don’t know if just the bus driver etc can see it or if it’s send to an Amazon server or if it analyze things via AI (even if forbitten). Also there are often cameras around train stations or special public places (bus central stations). Also think about automation of ticket controls, especially if you use personal tickets (abo).

Still much better than spycars. I’m just happy that I can do 99% of my stuff via walking or biking.

Anyone here with enough money to become an e-car manufacturer that creates a car with GNU/Linux board computer and HKS for sensors and connections? :smile:

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Well they were about to announce the LibremCar, but you’ve stolen the surprise.

(Just Kidding!)

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