Chestnut shipping


#1

Hi There! Seems like Chestnut is shipping. I got the email confirming my modem and charger a couple of days ago and just now got one announcing the actual shipment within the next few days. Phone is going to Austria/Europe.


Librem 5 — Promise Delivery Chart
#2

Glad to hear they are shipping to Europe!

Was there any mention of extra costs for taxes, customs or things like that?


#3

I would be also be interested in your experience with tax and shipping.


#4

@Skalman @Cc281080:
They said, they will ship via DHL so I think DHL will do all the tax- and custom handling.
I really hope they will do it like this, because regular USPS is a pain in the back, as you have to do all the customs handling basically yourself. I colleague of mine lost a Librem 13 that way.

Anyways I’ll keep you posted.


#5

And charge you for the privilege?


#6

This morning I have been notified that the package will be sent by DHL in the next few days and DHL has indicated that I have to pay customs 227 €
I have indicated that I do not want them to send the package and return it.
In Spain 21% IVA + 2,5% Aranceles.
599$ = 538€ (21% + 2,5% is = 126 €)
DHL takes 100 € !!!

if you want to do self-dispatch DHL charges 16 € for doing nothing too.


Pre-order EU customs tax
#7

yep DHL tax clearance is the most unthinkable service I have ever seen, pure robbery. So it usually ends up to notify them to leave it at customs so you then need to go and clear/pick up yourself.


#8

I received my Birch Librem 5 through DHL in Switzerland.
A week after the device came an invoice for about CHF 60 for tax and handling.


#9

Sorry, I do not understand completely (as usually) what does it mean: “I do not want them to send the package and return it.”

Does it mean:
a) I do not want them (DHL) to send the package to me and return it to the Customs (Can you pick this package yourself directly there, on Custom’s spot, as @ruff mentioned and as is to be expected?
b) I do not want them (DHL) to send the package to me and return it to the Purism.

Other question that I have is how DHL or Customs calculated VAT: from what you paid to the Purism or they looked at the current Purism shop page where it says that the unit price is $699.00:

699.00+21% = 845.79+2.5% = 866.9347−699.00 = 167.93 USD would be the current VAT cost for Spain, … if they didn’t take 599.00 USD as calculation ground/basis?


#10

549.00+7.7% = 42.27 USD, correct, as Switzerland sets its own VAT rates.


#11

It is not DHL that calculates the amount of taxes. It is on the import slip for customs that the amount paid, corresponding to the attached invoice, is indicated.
DHL simply add their fees.


#12

DHL taking 100 euros in extra fees seems utterly unacceptable. Specially since Purism promises free shipping.


#13

Yes and therefore let us look into the field of Postal charges/Fees (9) Frais de port/Frais from this customs declaration for the EU: “If the recipient of the package does not pay any shipping costs, you can specify 0.00 for the shipping costs in the customs declaration.” Because: “If the value of the content exceeds 300 Special Drawing Rights (over 377,22 €), you must use customs declaration CN 23.” There is German version so I guess Spanish must exist as well (@ugerola). What I’ve learned from @richi post here is that with Swiss DHL delivery was everything transparent and just fine.


#14

DHL is terrible in Greece too. They ask for more than 100 euros just to pass the package through customs. PLUS the tax the customs require. I hope I will be given the choice to have my L5 shipped with USPS. They also have a fee but it is about 20-27 euros.
@Quarnero you are right. Purism must have the receipt outside the box, saying 0.00 shipping + XXX value, because the tax is calculated not ony on the value but on the shipping amount too.


Pre-order EU customs tax
#15

Not just DHL, FedEx is terrible too. They both have a special processing at the customs. I’m not 100% but I believe that it’s the same case with UPS. I know about it because I’ve been burnt before. Especially when it comes to calculating shipping costs into to value of the product to be taxed. And this is the case with non EU countries as well. I sent 2 pairs of shoes from US ( 2×$60 price tag)! via FedEx to E. Europe. I had a discount for shipping (75% off) so I paid “only” $35 for it. My declared value of the shoes was $120 with included receipts in the box (from the shoe store).
Once my friend received the notice for delivery, he was asked to pay €160 !!! What happened is that they added the “real” costs of the shipping (before my discount - $140) , dismissed my receipts for shoes and instead used the prices fromn their book for local market value (2×€100). On top there was (their own) custom processing/handling fee and then you had VAT and Import Tax.
I was told by local cusrom agents to avoid shipping via these corp Giants because they have special contracts - channels for customs. And of course to always have shipping costs on mind for taxed value.
Sorry, for this long postz but the points I’m trying to make are

  • Purism doesn’t get to write / declare shipping valuez even if they have a super deal with the carrier
  • Purism can’t lower the declared value of the device for 2 reasons
  1. It’s a liability in case of a loss or damaged package
  2. It’s a legal liability because they would be engaging in fraud - tax evasion scheme,easily proven by authorities.

For customers outside of US who can’t afford it or just on principle won’t pay these extra fees, I strongly suggest finding some US residents (update ship address to them) and then have someone who travels bring it as a personal item over for a small gratuity fee (say 20-$50) or even for free if willing.
Other option is to have this person ship it via USPS , declare it as “used or damaged item” and value of 200$ or below and that way you don’t get to be taxed upon receiving the phone. Though, you do take the risk when it comes to damage or loss during transport. I sent a big box to Sweden like that. (Brand new Moto X w/o box, shirts, pair of sneakers and some sweets) and the total value - my declared (100$) plus shipping (50$), didn’t exceed their minimum for customs fees :slight_smile:
Same goes for the laptop orders. Though, for them you gotta pay up lot more :slight_smile: 100-150 but you still save hundreds of dollars


#16

Now by the time evergreen is shipping the price tag will be $799, and that will be taken by DHL&co to clear the taxes, no need to be a prophet :slight_smile: Even for those who paid $549


#17

I agree. As we already payed for the value of the goods we (will) need to pay for customs duty + CIF + other taxes (VAT). In Spain for example some products like laptops and mobile phones are duty free (0%). Yes we know that, but what if CN23 customs declaration form field Nr. (7) is empty, simply empty. Explanation: “Senders of commercial items are advised to supply this information as it will assist Customs in processing the items.” I believe that this (HS Code) Nr. is 851712. It might be useful to search for customsdutyfree_com and use Duty Calculator (with mentioned goods nomenclature code) there (database with for more than 100 countries). Usually the customs declaration is lodged by the carrier (DHL) as a direct or indirect representative, but if somethings are manageable, it is clear to me that if there is enough room for postal service to increase their cost, they will do it gladly (without asking me if I agree with it). Max. duty rate for Spain is 17% (not sure) and for Germany is 17.5%, for example.


#18

Within above link it is written: “Postal consignments with goods that … do not contain a credible invoice (that is affixed, where, possible to the exterior of the assignment) cannot be directly delivered to the addressee. The postal consignments will be sent on to the customs office that is competent for the area in which you live, and you will be given written notification of this by the German Post (Deutsche Post AG).” I had such situation already once (package from Switzerland) and for me wasn’t problem to go to the nearby (sort of) Customs Office. If so, we will open my package from Purism together, take out my invoice and I will pay (gladly) for VAT expenses over there.


#19

It was supposed they ship within the eu for europen customers, i hope starting from evergreen they will do that


#20

Seems like they didn’t think that through much - going back and forth. On one hand they would save on shipping (bulk instead of individual) but than would have to deal with storing them and shipping from there. On consumer end it would be more convenient, but final price w tax and custom included shouldn’t be much different (few euros saved on Ship cost as value added).
This kind of logistics only the big tech can afford , not purism.
If I were them, a the checkout I would have a shipping calculator (customer pays at the time of shipping) depending on the country and a disclaimer - no responsibility for any additional local tax and custom fees. It’s much easier and cheaper for them.
Shipping a phone to a random country outside of US can be costly , especially when you need a $700 insurance on top. I don’t think I can get any [way more established] company send me a product from EU (to US) for free or doing any sort of a low flat rate for all International shipments.