I do agree with this judgement of yours indeed. Although I wasnât actually suggesting selling away received Librem 5 either. Thanks anyway for correcting me, it was clear and purposely needed reaction from your side!
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Were you thinking about transferring the order to another potential customer? Thatâs also something I wish people werenât obliged to do. Itâs like trying to find someone to pay to take your place in a queue.
Anything between the company and the customer that requires the customer to involve a third party leaves a bitter taste, in my view.
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Yes. And as second, Iâm not saying that some Purism employee should be involved there as much (like we were asked at previous point of time on which Librem 5 Batch do we want to get delivered), doing just the final step where seller (perhaps @jox might reconsider such option) of his place within waiting queue sends out message to Purism requesting to transfer his pre-order to someone else (that is final and only official part of such conversation between two people). All I recommended in my above post is that we are having instrument of private message within this Forum where seller of some pre-order (should make new thread by her/himself offers certain place in queue to be sold). Few months ago I already bought one place in queue or rather pre-order this way from someone living within Europe. It was an easy conversation, SEPA money sent out from another EU country and transfer of #Purism_XYYXXXXXXX confirmed from Purism support@ side. As described here:
And here:
Or here:
where @Gagnarf final reply to me over private message was:
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I counter that at this point weâre seeing reports of devices ordered in 2018 being delivered, as such an order from 2017 would very much qualify as having already met their spot in the queue and should have either been shipped or had their refund processed. This is of course taking all claims at face value as there is no meaningful method to validate them from the outside.
Purism has already unilaterally and retroactively changed the agreement from refunds being provided upon request to requiring the customer to wait until their order is available to ship, to delay further does raise further ethical questions in my mind.
How does one estimate when theyâll get a refund if they arenât being issued when the device would have been shipped as the latest agreement says they wouldâŚ
While I agree the customer should not have to involve a third party and sell their device themselves or sell their place in the queue it does get them money the fastest, unfortunately it also incentivises Purism to delay as much as possible as then they donât have to try and sell the device since the people canceling are doing that sales part for them.
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Which ones? I already wrote on how we can leave out and that we can leave out Purism of this game (money from 2017 wasnât deposited on some Bank account, it was invested into this project, probably even into the NXPÂŽ working places in Austin, TX, somewhere where it was used well, as needed in particular building blocks phase) and offer to someone else particular Librem 5 spot in the queue or even give it away as present to someone that we care about or even to someone else that cares about getting and using Librem 5 ASAP. Please refer to this:
and this well thought out criterion:
Providing the refund gets everyone else in the queue their Librem 5 sooner by moving the whole queue up one instead of letting one person cut in line.
Yes it does look like that their Librem 5 will be delivered sooner. But with having those requesting their pre-order money back youâll get your Librem 5 indeed sooner? I doubt that while money that might be additionally invested into the production of one extra Librem 5 will be gone (if and when refunded), money is lost at the moment when refund provided.
And please note that this post of mine is dialog between us that are interested in Purism success and/or getting Librem 5 into their hands to be used as intended for (to communicate) and not for those that want to prove something that they didnât pay for in advance.
Ordered: 2017-10-14
Asked for refund: 2021-10-18
Refunded: -
Money received: -
EU customer (Germany)
Promised refunding in âlate Septemberâ
@chrizz, in the meantime this (as explained within related post) might help you to get your money back earlier (just make a new thread here within this Forum, explaining what you want to sell, if decided to follow what Iâm proposing that you might do here):
Ordered: 2018-09-08
Asked for refund: 2020-04-16, 2022-09-06 (after receiving the shipping email)
Refunded: -
Money received: -
EU customer
Received this status update from them 
At this moment the refund processes are slower. As such your refund is
scheduled to be processed in Q1 2023.
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They said they would ship all back ordered phones by the new year. So Iâm thinking you should get a refund before then.
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They also said refunds would be issued when they reached your spot in the queue, and thatâs without digging into the many other missed self set dates. I would set expectations for q2 2023 at the earliest using past experience to inform future expectations, especially when accounting for the already pushed return time frame from on your spot in the queue to the quarter after your spot in the queue.
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I have created forum account for writing in this topic.
So my order has status on website:
Order Number: # Purism_2866761368
Order Date: December 24, 2018
Order Status: Pending refund
Of course I have received answer that I will get refund when there will be my place in queue.
Last time when I asked for refund (04 October 2022) I received answer:
Hello,
Yes we should reach your place in the shipping queue before the end of this year.
Kind regards,
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Update: Still did not receive any refund
I ordered in April of 2018. I ended up in the Evergreen batch. I first requested a refund in Sept 2021, almost 3½ years later. I was told I could have a refund when my phone was ready to ship.
In May 2022, I was finally informed that my device was ready to ship. I requested a refund. I was told that my refund ticket would take âseveral weeks to processâ. In June I asked what the status was, and they informed me that my refund was âscheduled to be processed in Q4 2022â. At the end of December 2022 I emailed again and was informed that my case âis still in the refund processing queue. There is no precise ETA at the momentâ.
Still order status âawait shipmentâ. Several mails to them answered by alternating âcannot helpâ and âsee what we can doâ.
Candid Camera?
Order Date 2017-10-7
Refunded Requests: 2020-10-27
Order Status: Pending refund
EU customer (Germany)
In 2020-10-27:
âWe can refund your order, but not immediately. It will take some monthsâ
After asking about it in 2022-7-6:
'The refund was not yet processed. It should be processed in late Q4 2022."
Refunded: -
Money received: -
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I got a full refund today.
The full timeline for whoever is keeping track of these things:
April 2018 ordered
Sept 2021 requested refund
May 2022 got âdevice ready to shipâ email. Asked again for refund
December? 2022 filed a complaint with AG
April 5 2023 received a refund
omitted: dates of various conversations with Purism support
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June 3, 2019 - Ordered Phone
March 01, 2023 - Scheduled for shipping at March 08, 2023. Asked For a refund
Still no refund or timeframe when I get it. Support ignoring the requests to give time frame for more then a month
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Looks, so, generally agree. I allowed them to use my money to fund the project with preorder(hello inflation, by the way) , they promised refund when the shipping order comes, and now they ignore y and does not even give y time line. Would never deal with them, initially was thinking about my next laptop with themâŚ
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