I donated early at the start of the kickstarter--it's been three years since backing and still no phone

Again, thanks! I did have to retrieve my password (glad I was able to login via email, because I would have never guessed my username!) and I logged in and updated my address. My primary concern was having a “we shipped this to the address on file” which is why I’ve reached out to them every time I’ve moved.

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That’s good to hear. I was just reading another post where someone asked for a refund and was told that they would not receive a refund until all pre-orders were shipped (which is an indefinite amount of time to the best of my knowledge).

Well, my experience was back to one year ago, they weren’t shipping yet. Not sure if something changed between then and now

That was pre-Evergreen.

Per the FAQ (https://puri.sm/faq/) you’ll have to wait:

Per our policy, we can not provide refund for orders that are in the pre-order status.

Now that we have placed the “Evergreen” batch order, your funds are locked into that order. We can’t refund those funds until the phone goes from “pre-order” to “shipping now” status. Once the phone (final, mass production build batch) pre-orders start shipping and we reach your order in the queue , we will refund the full amount you paid, unless you change your mind.

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I requested a refund a week ago and still no response. Per the new refund policy you might never get a refund. " If you want to cancel an order for products that are in the process of crowdfunding or pre-order, we will issue a full refund once the crowdfunding/pre-order of the product is completed and all pre-orders are shipped." As orders are always being made they will never complete all the “pre-orders”. I have checked my spam box. I guess i will have to file something somewhere to get a refund. It seems that this phone will not be a daily driver for a at least a couple of years. I hate to be so negative about the progress as i would love a working phone that actuality functions.

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a search in my email provider showed they email about batch preference 9-18-2019, i got a response 11-13-2019 stating i was in the evergreeen batch. the date i backed according to their website is 09-29-2017. i have received no other communication from purism regarding shipping an actual device to me. all i’m saying is how is someone who ordered AFTER me getting it BEFORE me? this makes no sense to me, makes me think they’re playing bingo to draw order numbers.

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I don’t think that’s correct - in the sense that you appear to be claiming that forever each new order will be treated as a pre-order. It might be true however that you will not know when all pre-orders have been shipped (for a variety of reasons).

However there seem to multiple versions of what the actual terms and conditions that apply to a refund are.

Crowdfunding and pre-ordering are both inherently more risky to the purchaser than ordering a product that exists and is available for sale.

Then you are looking good for a phone real soon now.

I recommend spending the remaining wait time on cleaning out your inbox. :rofl:


I would suggest first verifying if they are going to send your phone this month and getting it on written record. That way if they don’t deliver, you’ll have more a legal standing to dispute their indefinite “pre-order” status. I don’t have a history with Purism, but honestly… I was really excited about them when I first learnt about what products they made–now frankly, I don’t think they should be allowed to do any more crowdfunding until they have delivered. However, someone kindly posted a link to their refund policy and I read their warranty and it seems rather generous–so assuming they are legit (assumption made from joining and participating in this forum with users who have received their phones) then it is probably worth waiting one more month. Again, you should definitely follow up with them and get a reply. I’ve always gotten a reply when I’ve reached out them–just be sure to be courteous and professional.

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The only problem with this policy is that Purism has already given delivery timelines and they have always been quarterly estimates, the can kicking misinformation may have initially dissuaded backers from cancelling their orders. But as we go into year three for 2021, doubts about the sustainability of this “pre-order” business model might be prompting people to request more refunds. The only risk we should have to take is risk that the Librem 5 won’t be worth a fraction of money spent to back it–to me that’s a fair risk because the goal was to launch a Linux cybersecurity-focused phone from scratch–and as such things can go wrong. No delivery at all is not an acceptable risk and with the exception of bankruptcy I reckon non-delivery of a crowdfunded/pre-ordered product would be illegal.

I seriously hope that Purism can stick to its January timeline because ultimately if they fail, then it’s going to be bad for future Linux phone possibilities. Ubuntu already screwed over supporters with their publicity stunt edge (was devestated by that fiasco)–if Librem 5 fails, more supporters are likely to sit out any future companies attempts to crowdfund a Linux phone.

Failure by a project to meet previously advised timeframes, even repeatedly so, isn’t necessarily misinformation. I don’t know how many software and/or hardware projects you have been involved in but …

Even outside the IT space, there have been enough, e.g. government, projects that have been horribly over budget and over time. That’s what happens when you try to do something for the first time. Initial estimates can be substantially optimistic. Unforeseen problems can crop up. That’s before the occasional global pandemic.


I didn’t say “disinformation” nor did I intend to imply this, sorry if there was confusion for word choice. I merely meant to say: inaccurate information (at face value).

I used to work for the government and failure to deliver resulted in lost contracts and jobs, always. The only reason for repeat waste and non-delivery is the under-bidding of all the scavvies trying to take the contract away from the last scavvie that underbid and won combined with the painting the roses red culture that comes every new appointment where leadership changes and brings all their “teams” in as directors and deputy directors to undo any and all of the recent processes established. Anyway, I currently work at a well-known private-sector software company that used to frequently miss it timelines-- and they also paid for those misses and lost critical contracts (B2B). Today we are on mark for delivery timelines and our president still gives new hires the quality triad speech during their orientations for scope/time/cost slippage as tradeoffs for quality. Our products don’t have to sacrifice any of these things for quality, and we are still an always in the black business (even in 2020). Fortunately, our company has been around for a while and has always delivered a niche product to allow for time to learn.

It would be unfair to assume Purism would have this level of maturity in leadership in their development as they sound like a relatively new company, but I also think it would be unreasonable to assume they have the luxury of learning from their mistakes the way my company did; that’s why I hope this Librem 5 project doesn’t end in failure.

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OK then I think you would have a very good understanding of the issues. :slight_smile:

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Purism changed its refund policy in February 2020 from providing immediate refunds to providing refunds when processing orders in the queue. This change of the policy happened between Chestnut and Dogwood.

It is worth noting that that Purism was probably having financial problems at this time, since it reduced the number of developers working on the Librem 5’s software from 13 to 8 between February and May of 2020.

All the people reporting that they have already received Evergreen ordered in either August or early September of 2017, so I don’t think Purism is skipping orders. The only exception that I know of is Notta Pro who ordered in Oct. 2018. I suspect that Purism included him in the first Evergreen batch because he is a Youtuber who does reviews of tech equipment.


An L5 Evergreen recently sold on eBay for $845, so there might be the possibility of making a little profit if one holds out a little longer.

I also see a couple of others that have started bidding in U.S. and Czech Republic.

Just saying…


Interesting. I didn’t realize that anyone who ordered in October 2017 had already gotten Evergreen. I wonder if people in different regions are getting Evergreen earlier than others.

@admsjas, can I ask what part of the world you are in? We should ask @purismforum where he is located as well.

So far, I can recall, just off the top of my head, evidence of deliveries to U.S., Canada, Austria, Italy, Czech Republic, U.K., Australia or New Zealand, and several unknowns (apparent North American and foreign destinations).

My order date is 23rd Oct, 2017 and am still waiting for the modem confirmation email. It looks like a lottery system approach, picking customers at random.


Most of the people who have received theirs were early backers.

There was someone in Matrix, from 2018 I believe, who reported getting theirs. I think the reponse from Purism was something like “If we gave you yours early, it was a mistake. You are lucky. Our plan is to deliver the orders by order date”.

That was a couple of weeks ago.

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I think you skipped the “I selected chestnut” part :upside_down_face: