Librem 5 Fir Batch

Hardware Librem 5
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I think that Purism should cancel the Fir version alltogether and build another, more improved phone, from scratch.

The purose of the Fir version was actually to assure everyone that a reasonably completed final Librem 5 would eventually be released as it was necessary during the initial development prosess to rev the Librem 5 several times before the hardware could be considered to be complete and fully functional. But they got it right or close enough in Evergreen. To have a Fir version now would likely slow development. Samsung doesn’t release something like a Note 10 and then a few years later release a Note 10.1. They move-on, radically innovate, and give the next product either a new number or maybe even a new name. It’s all in the marketing. The next phone should be “new and improved”, as opposed to “the same but a little better”. Technology marches forward, hopefully in bigger steps.

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142

The arm architecture is ridiculous in performance and this arm cpus seriously depends on others accelerators to final purpuse, these accelerators are still on construction(Libre) to be enabled in the Librem 5. Asking for another phone with a better CPU is falling into the same hole again and start again.
Fir it is super super super import on the same SOCompat.

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143

Fir is a batch though, not a version. The differences between batches A through E are relatively minor, and if Fir comes into being, the same may be true again. That may not accord with the expectations of those who have deferred their order to the Fir batch however.

The Librem 5 v2 is a whole different (hypothetical) device. The Librem 5 v2 has unfortunately, in this forum, also been misleadingly named the Librem 6.

… so the extent to which Fir would slow development depends on what Fir encompasses.

A possible compromise: Fir is Evergreen but with the 4GB RAM upgrade and/or the 128GB eMMC upgrade (whatever is most practical without disrupting things).

One unknown for us as outsiders is … how many phone orders are in the Fir batch?

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144

Purism is in no position to dump what they have learned making the Librem 5 and starting from scratch. Samsung, sure they have very very deep pockets.

I think the main thing with the Fir batch is if they can improve the battery life/power management, network reliability (modem/bluetooth/wifi) and perhaps figure out a way to shrink the footprint a bit so it’s not quite so hefty, like a weight loss program.

These further refinements to the existing platform will set them up nicely for a next full revision of the device, but like I said there is really no starting from scratch here unless they get some sort of windfall of money in which to do so.

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145

Add a dedicated website for Librem 5 Fir plus Free Software Fundation VERIFIED Device stamp.

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146

New Post

Etnaviv NPU update 20: Fast object detection on the NXP i.MX 8M Plus SoC

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147

Interesting. The chip can do “up to” 2.3TOPS (int8).

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148

I havent seen anything from Purism to support this claim.

I dont think were going to know what Fir will contain until theres an official announcement, and I suspect that there will never be an official fir batch but rather a new product, a Librem 5v2 or something similar as the amber - evergreen batches has too much baggage to keep with that naming scheme and it is more beneficial to the business to avoid the sins of the past where possible.

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149

Yes, looks pretty speculative.

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150

Not going to lie, I think if Purism was selling a version of the Librem 5 with 8+ GB of ram, a much faster processor, and a marginally better camera, I would probably throw like $5000 at it just to keep using this style of handset while getting marginal improvements.

If I had any financial advisors, they would probably tell me I was being extremely unwise, but luckily I probably won’t tell anyone acting in that capacity for me in the future about this behavior

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151

Just bedazzle your present L5 with jewels if you feel like spending so much.
:rofl:

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152

I think i would rather bedazzle it with the corpses of my previous android phones, ripped out from their circuit boards, just for the off chance that they might cause it to run faster

Edit:
How much faster does a Librem 5 run if it has the processor from a samsung ripped off its circuit board and glued to the L5 for inspiration? maybe that’s the question i should be asking

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153

What you may really want is a die shrink i.e. smaller process fab - so that even with the same speed of processor, you get reduced power consumption, and hence a longer time to deplete the battery. That’s not to say that someone might not also welcome a faster processor but then I would also welcome a faster disk.

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154

I think with a faster processor (smaller process fab) I would prefer a setting where I can choose between performance mode and speed mode. This way I could do more heavily tasks when I’m not out of power (i.e. on desktop) while extending battery uptime on a trip.

The camera is the only thing that sounds realistic for now. :yum: But the camera will also make better pictures with further camera app improvements. Anyway, it would be nice to get improvements especially for dark environments.

For 8GB of RAM the processor has to support it. And for a better processor (beyond what was or is the plan for Fir, which only supports 4GB RAM if I’m not wrong) Purism needs to find one where proprietary blobs wont be a thing plus with an available FOSS firmware. The requirements are high as you can see.

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155

New Post on NPU for Etnaviv for Librem Fir SoC:

Etnaviv NPU update 20: Fast object detection on the NXP i.MX 8M Plus SoC

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156

Is there any news on the Fir batch?

I read Purism news from time to time to see if I am to expect my phone any time soon but I haven’t read nothing about the Fir batch (though it’s possible I missed it).

Has Purism communicated anything about it? Is it still expected to happen? Is it possible to fallback to an Evergreen phone otherwise?

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157

No.

Depends on whom you ask.

Likely, you’d have to email purism support to find out for certain.

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158

I would say very likely but only Purism can say for sure.

I would also say that, given the absence of news on Fir, this might be a sensible course of action. I guess it depends on your goals and your personal situation.

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159

Make Librem 5 more Delicious on Fir.

  • Add LTPOLED HD-HDR 90HZ monitor.
  • Add G Master Mobile Lens to delete Aberration from root.

Librem 5 a GNU-LEVEL Phone by Purism. = )

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160

The options for Purism are:

  1. Keep the i.MX 8M Quad processor, but offer 4GB RAM and 256GB Flash.
  2. Switch to the i.MX 8M Plus processor, which is both an upgrade and a downgrade
  3. Upgrade to the i.MX 95 processor.
  4. Switch to the Rockchip RK3566
  5. Use a down-clocked Rockchip RK3588.
  6. Accept the blobs and use a Qualcomm QCM6490

If Purism wants to sell the Librem 5/Liberty as a convergent PC, it should consider option 1, but it doesn’t address the poor battery life, high heat and poor processing power of the i.MX 8M Quad.

Honestly, the amount of engineering for options 2, 3, 4 and 5 is significant and I doubt that Purism has the financing to attempt them, because I don’t think Purism can ever do another crowd funding campaign due to the bad publicity it received from the crowdfunding of the Librem 5.

Switching to the i.MX 8M Plus would shrink the process node from 28 to 14 nm and reduce the heat, while improving the processing power, but it cuts the GPU processing power in half and eliminates the video out with USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode (although a separate chip could be added to provide that). I have no idea if the NPU in the Plus can be run without blobs, but the Librem 5 doesn’t need an NPU in my opinion.

I’m really annoyed that none of the chipmakers are bothered to make a competitive Linux chip for phones, except Qualcomm, and you need a bunch of blobs to run the QCM6490. However, I don’t see much difference in terms of freedom between running blobs on separate WiFi and cellular modem chips and running blobs on an integrated SoC like the QCM6490, although there are security/privacy differences because you can cut the power to those chips with hardware kill switches.

The 8nm RK3588 with four Cortex-A76 and four Cortex-A55 cores is a fantastic chip for a Linux laptop, and maybe it can be downclocked to fit within the power envelope of a phone, but that will give you a hot phone with a short battery life, like the PinePhone Pro, which is hardly ideal. The performance of the 22nm RK3566 with four Cortex-A55 cores with a max of 8GB RAM isn’t very impressive, and I don’t see much point in Purism using the chip when PINE64 says that it will use the chip in the PinePhone 2. There is no way that Purism can compete with PINE64’s low prices, and the chip doesn’t have good enough performance to bother, and you need blobs to boot the Rockchip chips.

It kills me that NXP gave the 12nm i.MX 95 six Cortex-A55 cores, but not a single Cortex-A78 core. NXP seems to have purposely crippled the performance of the chip, but it still looks like the best option to me.

Another option is for Purism to go to Fairphone or SHIFT and work out a deal to sell a Linux phone with their hardware containing the QCM6490 chip. Of course, it would have to run blobs on the main processing cores. I can’t see Purism doing that, because it goes against the company’s ethos and brand image, but I would love to see the company do it, because we really do need a Linux phone that can be used as a full Android replacement. The advantage of this option is that Purism could roll it out quickly and it wouldn’t require that much investment.

Given the financial realities of the company, I think that Purism should do both options 1 and 6, because both can be done for limited investment, and I think both would be profitable. Purism would be able to offer one phone for people who want the freest phone possible and a convergent desktop, and it can offer another phone for people who want a decent camera, good processing power, good battery life, etc. to replace their Android phone and don’t mind the blobs.

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