Actually, I’m at work right now and barring someone working late asking for an escort to their car, having to remove a trespasser or an emergency, I’ve really got nothing to do until around 2 ish, security is kinda awesome But it’s because I have years experience in the field that I’m going to have to disagree with @Caliga s sugestion that purism pander to entitlement. If you give into a squeaky wheel once, they will just find another way to squeak later because it’s really just about power.
I agree with this 100% though and suggest this:
If Caliga (prolific on these forums) is in Aspen group, they should be shipped a phone as soon as possible to set an example of rewarding proper conduct as well as disproving some wild rumours and speculation. Whatever they do, purism should not reward negative behaviours.
If Caliga is not in batch Aspen, then someone else polite, Aspen, and fairly regular on these forums should be shipped to soon (not me, I’m in Toronto where the rent is too damn high so I might have to wait even more till payday to pay the duty )
Regardless of rewarding behaviours, shipping a phone to anyone who is active in this forum will be a good way of disproving wild rumours and speculation. Unfortunately that is probably not me because of, at least, the long shipping delay. Better to send it to an early backer in the US or, failing that, someone in Canada who can afford the duty.
The more I spend time on this forum, the more I’m reaching the conclusion that the Linux security and privacy focused crowd are really a very entitled and whiny crowd.
If I worked at Purism I would be beyond demoralized by some of the crap here.
The company’s very purpose is to improve the tech world, and it isn’t those people who would never buy their products that are criticizing the loudest. It is the people who bought an L5 and think the company should waste money and resources coddling their unnecessary and unjustified need to have their hand held.
I think I’ll be a Chestnut. Ordered Oct. 17.
And it’s not unlikely I’ll receive it in January, as it will be stuck in customs for some weeks.
Already had that with the laptop.
So I need to be patient anyway.
I fled from Windows about two years ago and I agree with that assessment. Having asked for help on what, at that point of my journey, were beginner’s things on numerous forums I was struck by the sheer number of smart arses and generally unhelpful nature of the vast majority of people I had the misfortune to encounter. For the large part there was less angst by trudging away on Google and paying for advice. Now I have a level of proficiency that I almost never go to these forums. I have sat back with amusement and noted the narcissistic injuries take their toll here on those here.
While it appears that I digress the point is well made by @2disbetter that the level of whinging here because it hasn’t gone the way that some people want speaks volumes to me. I agree with that assessment.
Personally, I have never been so disappointed with an online community of which I’ve been part as I’m disappointed in this one today. The amount of grief I’ve taken both here and on /r/Purism in the last 48 hours has been absolutely stunning. Meanwhile Purism hasn’t corrected their lies. They haven’t provided any new information. They did however force Bryan Lunduke to create an account on the company forums and repost some previous tidbits, so I guess that is something.
In any event you all will be happy to know that I have begun the process of requesting a refund. If Purism wants me to shut my yap, providing me a refund is the absolute best way to ensure that. Once my financial ties to this floundering project have been cut, I’ll be more than happy to lurk and promise to only come out of the woodwork to gloat once this entire thing implodes and the time comes to say, “I told you so”.
On the other hand, I might be wrong. I’ve been wrong a lot in my life. I hope this is one of those times. If it is and Purism gets to the point where I can simply buy a FOSS powered, spyware free phone and have it immediately shipped to my doorstep then I’ll be more than happy to eat more words and pony up some extra cash for my penance. I would likely even apologize to the community for upsetting so many of you. Please believe me when I say that this was not my intention.
However one thing I won’t apologize for is taking this company to task and pushing them to live to their claimed standards of transparency, openness and social purpose. If that part of this is what is really ticking you off then you already know what I know: Purism is just another corporation and for better or worse they don’t deserve your inherent trust. My advice when it comes to any corporation is to judge them based upon their actions. Don’t judge them based on their slogans, marketing or press release fluff. Down that path lies damnation.
I hope this is goodbye. Of course if Purism doesn’t give me a refund… that would say quite a bit about their financial situation, wouldn’t it?
Wow - I need to say, that this is not about a popular revolution or some kind of a super cool techno club or something. It’s “just” a phone, so why don’t you all come down and have a chill.
@jaylittle Purism will honor any legitimate refund request. A user can ask for a refund at any point before his phone order ships, and in the first 30 days after it was received.
Jay, It is your choice what you choose to do with your own money, but I think that you are over-reacting.
Consider these facts:
Nicole Faerber told us in her presentation on August 18 that Purism is planning to produce 10k of the Librem 5, which means that the number of orders has continued to grow over time and that Purism is getting extra funding.
I have been downloading the new Qemu images of PureOS for the Librem 5 and it has gotten much better. Hackersgame made a video explaining the improvements.
The Aspen shipped with finished caps on the hardware kill switches, whereas we were told to only expect bare poles, and the cases look very nicely made with no visible gaps in the pictures and videos that we have seen so far, so it appears that Purism is ahead of where it expected to be on the hardware front.
Purism only has 20 employees working on the Librem 5, so a lack of communication may simply be due to the fact that Purism employees are working hard on solving the problems, and not spending their time responding to posts on the forum. As a person who has worked on both hardware and software projects, I can tell you that everything takes longer than expected, and there are always little problems that arise. If you look look at the latest Linux device tree files and the latest Qemu images, you will see that Purism is making a lot of progress.
Creating a new mobile operating system and using a lot of hardware which has new Linux drivers is a hard task, but it appears that Purism is doing it. Look at the commits that Purism is making in the Linux kernel and you will see that the company is solving the technical problems. The overheating issue appears to be solved.
It is fine to decide that you don’t want to go through the pain/joy of being an early adopter, but it isn’t OK to post that you think the company is failing financially when there is no evidence of that.
If Purism wants me to shut my yap, providing me a refund is the absolute best way to ensure that.
Holy fuXX0rs Bukkake!!!
Do have some sort of magic decoder ring for everything you read or something? Purism never tried to gag you, they were never even present ITT! That was me and I don’t work for Purism. I’m just some lady who has had enough of your narcissism. Also I wasn’t saying you should ask for a refund, rather they might just exercise their 'right to refuse" and refund you if you keep acting as self appointed assassin of their reputation.
I admit I had not read this sentence when i posted my reply. @jaylittle I do not want to shut anyone’s yap . But you questioned if we would honor a refund request or not.
Be cool, y’all. They’re gone, let them take their poison with them. We’re all just trying to have a good time here, no sense in getting all fired up when they’re not even here anymore and we know they’re full of shit anyway.
I originally sent my request to a Purism employee that somebody suggested I chat with regarding this situation. Due to the lack of response from Mr. Saenz I went ahead and looped in support@puri.sm. If there is a better choice, please advise.
Let’s review. You seem to believe the following things:
I am a narcissist.
Calling out lies told by Purism is wrong.
Asking questions about the hardware production process is wrong.
Asking questions about Purism’s financial situation is wrong.
Expecting Purism to be accountable to their customers is wrong.
Implying Purism might have financial problems is wrong.
Purism not giving me a refund is perfectly fine because I am a bad person.
Let me just say that I am so glad I don’t live in a world of your making. I sincerely hope that you find an avatar that doesn’t fall short of your expectations one day because honey I am quite sure Purism ain’t it.
The software isn’t the problem here. Most of the great things you posted are software related. The hardware is the problem and Purism has gone out of its way for quite awhile now to NOT speak of the hardware. When they do its usually vague. But hey I was fine with that. It was a work in progress. The shipping snafu was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
As for implying that Purism might be having financial problems being so offensive. I have literally asked them in the form of a simple to address yes/no question to address that directly. They have made the choice to ignore my questions and the questions asked by numerous other members of the community. They are choosing not to simply tell us “No we aren’t waiting on future sales to finance the completion of existing orders”
I even removed that question from my original list when I reposted them in Lundukes “let’s rehash a bunch of stuff everybody already knows so we can shut most people up” thread. And you know what? It seems to have worked. Maybe he is better at marketing than I thought.
In any event I have given Purism multiple opportunities to address our concerns with some carefully designed questions. They have refused to provide even a single answer.
I could go on but I won’t. I am tired of wasting my time here.
Yes, I think you are in the wrong place. I do not know about others but I have been working on research and development projects for 35 years and I know that it is impossible to give absolute timetables. All timetables must be seen as indicative. Thus I have no complaints whatsoever against Purism and I think they should be allowed to work in peace. Why not wait for a year and when there are reviews and stable products have another look at the phone. I do not want the Purism people to start informing so much instead of concentrating on the development work. I think information has been quite enough and more details will emerge in a few months time. The ultimate answers will be given only when I have the phone in my own hands and I can wait several months (even if I would like to have it as soon as possible).
But it’s because I have years experience in the field that I’m going to have to disagree with @Caliga s sugestion that purism pander to entitlement. If you give into a squeaky wheel once, they will just find another way to squeak later because it’s really just about power.
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