I welcome a critical discussion at any point in time for any given project. However, I would appreciate it if you could substantiate your claims with sources so as to enable the rest of us to prove your arguments (which holds both for supporters and critics). I follow the news section of puri.sm and only some conversation here, so I am not always 100% up to date.
To just give you one example: You claim that purism is straight out lying about their Librem 5 endevor. Could you specify that? Which statement gives you the impression of a malicious, intentionally dishonest statement?
If you have posted them already somewhere I might have missed that. I have read quite a lot of your statements by now but not claiming I have read all of them. Thank you very much.
In one of your postings you write that a proof of an actual phone call from Librem 5 to another phone would be needed to show that the phone is working. Isn’t the calling function a software issue? How can you then claim that the software is not relevant?
When you were presented with new pictures about hardware (e.g. Todd Weaver posting a new picture 1-2 days ago) you claimed something similar along the lines that hardware is not relevant but the software, i.e., that the phone is capable of making phone calls.
What exactly do you need to know about the Librem 5’s hardware?
At this point, we know virtually every chip and the PCB layout in Librem 5, except for the image sensors being used for the front and back cameras and how Purism plans to provide video out. At this point, the major issue is getting the software to work with the hardware in the phone.
I agree with you that Purism could have given more info about its development, but Purism has given us a clear window when the first batch should ship, and I think that we shouldn’t jump to premature conclusions, without giving Purism the time to fulfill what it said it would do.
I also have worked on software and hardware projects that got delayed. The company that I work at is 8 months behind in rolling out the next version of its software. I know what the issues are, but I can’t say anything on the software’s forum, so users are complaining and wondering if the next version will ever arrive.
Purism released its Dev Kit files under the GPL3.0+ license. We can see the source code being developed in the Purism repository, which is the most important part at this point. I don’t understand why people are assuming that Purism won’t be shipping the Aspen batch of the Librem 5, when all we have to do is wait 3 more weeks to find out.
I have read your first post. There you are stating questions and suppositions.
Not one of your questions have been answered.
How come that you draw (from your unanswered questions?) the conclusion that purism is lying? To me it’s a big difference if someone is not answering a question and lying. Both can be done intentionally and (rather) unintentionally, but the difference is quite stark.
If you care to comment I would like your opinion on what I have posted above:
You seem to be contradicting yourself. Either it is absolutely clear what you want which is nothing good or it is not clear what you want because you yourself don’t know it.
It doesn’t matter what the specifics are for each State. The point is that he is full blown attack seeing things through this extremely negative lens.
Everything is to be “exposed” as a fraud or sheme . Going after every tiny word. In this case he confused something of actual meaning with Marketing schtick. Instead admitting that, he goes into finding yet another mistep by this company.
Doom and gloom approach, like with most conspiracy theorists.
I’m really surprised how patient are the moderators here.
Entitlement issues. I did this therefore I demand X in return. As if they signed some contract with him and not complying with it.
So, let’s come up with a whole bunch of Qs and demand answers or else.
If you are disappointed for whatever reason with your “investment”, feel free to disengage and pull your funds out.
No reason to fall into this manic tirade for this long.
Wanna warn people about possible wrongdoing leading to the loss of their investment? You do it - as Purism graciously allowed you. And be done with it. But, no. Not enough. Has to keep going on and on.
Beyond ridiculous at this point.
@jaylittle has shown himself to be an obvious troll at this point. While I’ll admit that I get a chuckle from some of his antics, it’s more sad than funny to me at this point:
Pretending to be a seasoned sage of an “investor” who is just doing us an invaluable service of pointing out that this whole Librem 5 thing is a total scam because they don’t come onto the forums and answer his endless questions (bordering on a Gish Gallop that Purism would be stupid to engage with anyway).
Pretending the rest of us don’t already all know this is a risky project that could get delayed further or could still fail - pretty sure most of us here are not wide-eyed infants, unschooled in the ways of the world.
Pretending that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. etc etc.
If he came on here and started asking Librem 5 pre-order customers to pressure Purism directly to communicate more frequently and clearly, taking a cue from the Pine Phone project (maybe we should do that, BTW), and engaged in reasonable discussions about the risk of the project being delayed further or failing, the merits of voting with your money to support something else instead, etc. then there would have been reason to believe him. Sadly, with his blatant jumping to unsupported conclusions, fear mongering, and condescension he’s pretty clearly a troll (and not a very good one at that).
Purism has not yet broken any of its commitments and it’s still possible for them to fulfill as agreed. I am unhappy with how they have communicated. But they deserve an opportunity to fulfill without anyone making unproven claims against them. Maybe there are legitimate reasons for why we can’t fully informed (maybe). I am in the baby boomer generation. We have traditional business expectations. Then again, you get a different perspective when you read ‘The Cathedral and the Bazaar’. Microsoft and Google are the cathedral. Everything Linux is the Bazaar. I also credit Todd for his recent post, showing what the Aspen batch looks like. That helps, even if I still expect more.
Based in Washington? Feel free to provide some supporting information. Here is what Purism says on their own FAQ Page
Q: Where is Purism based?
A: Short answer: South San Francisco, CA USA
Longer answer: Worldwide. Purism sources component parts from China, Taiwan, Japan, and the United States. Purism builds, assembles, quality control tests, and delivers all our hardware from our South San Francisco facility, USA. Purism has employees, contractors, and volunteers from around the world.
I find it really sad that every time I try to take the company at their word, I’m told that I’m a troll, an idiot or something else along those lines. Yet the very reason I’m here is to try and keep you from taking what Purism is saying to you at face value. If you can prove that they are registered out of Washington state (and yes it absolutely makes a difference), then that is yet another instance of them lying as their own FAQ page states that they are clearly based out of California.
But hey, Apple does the same thing so they can enjoy their Irish tax loopholes, right? LOL. Of course they do. But the entire point of Purism and what they are supposed to be doing is that they were supposed to be a step above the competition.
You know? This is dumb. You guys clearly don’t want to hear it and I’m tired beyond all measure of pushing it.
Yeah we have about half a dozen by now.
Combining is either not possible or the admins never use that option.
A few dozen long-time users (incl. me) also have the power to move topics, but in this case it is too early. It would be seen as confirmation that Purism has something to hide, that’s why the topics need to stay public for a while.
Luckily jay worked hard to discredit himself so, I don’t really care too much anymore
I’m not suggesting hiding anything (i.e. not suggesting making the topic invisible in some way, which no doubt some forum software allows). I am only suggesting consolidating the topics in a Whinge Lounge. The topics would remain public and visible.
Purism itself is not responding to any of these topics, so nothing is going to be achieved by the topics.
At least not until one of us is asked for a modem and power supply selection.
It’s just a bit disappointing to watch however . Like people really think successful company is really going to pull the pin on the grenade and then drop the thing right in their own lap .
That’s what they would be doing . If there was a major design flaw that was causing them to overtly lie about devices that haven’t been manufactured and shipped when they promise they had been.
No one would ever trust them again . News of this occurrence would rip through the internet like a wildfire .
Personally as evidenced by the prior production delays I don’t believe purism has any problem at all saying " We apologize for the delay but we have found yet another design issue that will lead us to once again delay the estimated shipping date of the Librem 5 . We assure you we are working diligently to resolve this issue and a statement some time in the near future will be made with an updated estimated shipping window . "
I think alot of the hysteria is more user driven . Some can’t wait and that’s understandable. And some folks psyche simply will not allow patience sans regularly scheduled short dated communications.
It is what it is .
Just today . I left a location and left my Iphone at this location on a table . The Iphone was on the home screen before I pressed the power button to suspend .
When I returned to the location I picked up and resumed the Iphone and it was sitting on google maps over my section of the state im in with a request to use the GPS to pinpoint the devices location overlayed atop of the map .
I personally am not asking for a refund period. I cant wait to get my L5 so I can ditch this spybrick . Filthy frank who works for the NSA that tries to see me naked through the camera and tracks my every move might be a bit sad.
I think Im going to encase the Iphone in concrete in the shape of a brick . Then paint it brick red and then write SPY on it across the face of my brick the day I get my L5.
Then put it on my coffee table . I think it will be an interesting conversation piece. Im going to fully charge it and hopefully it may still ring and then call it when people are over . " What is that ? " they will inquire. " Oh , thats just my spy brick"
In my experience, some people have no experience not getting what they want when they want. It’s disturbing to see some of the reactions they have when they have to function outside of the little bubble of tyranny they’ve built where everyone around them either is dependent on them or fear them. I’m not talking about specifics just what I see in general. Of course, this was a somewhat similar situation, however it would have been over in 20 minutes had I had to deal with it in real life.
‘Filthy Frank’ might be just as anxious to get a Librem 5 as we are. It’s because of what I’ve seen wearing a uniform (which I definitely cannot extrapolate on) that makes me want to see this phone succeed. Allies are all around and where you least expect them:)