Librem 5 Ready-To-Market?

Hardware Librem 5
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Yes. So? So it is with all the others as well: telemetry is gathered in abundance. So it is with all Linux systems: things get fixed and better.

[edit to add: Better a tester for L5 than a social experiment for many others.]

It already is, it has been for a while.

I understand the sentiment but the base expectation seems to be (intentional or not) a double standard: L5 should be a stable thing that shouldn’t need to update - unlike other phones which are ready, stable and never update [/sarcasm]. I’d argue that the relative minimum for “ready to ship” has been reached and passed - and so thinks apparently Purism too. The minimum to market and ship to a more wider audience than early adopters…? Debatable.

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The phone seems ready to market for me, but a niche market, the market will open widely with the addition of more and more fonctionnalities

And I’m sure that if you asked backers in this project to be beta-testers, the vast majority would sign with no hesitation

Actually, not smartphone on the market is ready for me, that’s why I stick to my samsung C260 (which I didn’ even bought)
Librem 5 is the only smartphone worth interest for me, I know I’m not everyone, working camera is a very low priority for me (I will patiently wait for the update making it work)

But from the beginning of the project, it was pretty clear for me, it targeted a niche market that would grow with time and quality, like the growth of the Linux kernel (contrary to ubuntu touch which targeted the regular phone consumer)

8 years ago a colleague told me : linux on desktop is not ready, too much problems to solves, too much fonctionnalities missing, too complex
I answered him : first, my 60 years old mother use a linux on regular and have much less problem, and we are actually in a helpdesk to help callers solve their problems (or educate them) on their windows computer… so windows on desktop is not ready ?

I will answer something similar to you : have you ever seen someone never having a problem with their android smartphone ? (slow reactivity, log-in problems, overheat, not finding a option, crashes…) so … android is not ready ? Didn’t you remember how shitty the first iphone was (slow, lack of fonctionnalities, buggy, etc…) ?
Android and IOS are about conforming to one fit-for-all technology, gnu/linux product are about personalisation of technology
So if you wait to have a fully terminated perfect product with gnu/linux, you will die before it happens : there is always some problems to solve or fonctionnalities to add, because habits, hardwares, technologies are in constant evolution.

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We (rightly) assumed that most people would prefer to receive their phone now instead of wait until the camera driver is finished.

That said, we still inform people of the current state of the hardware when they get their shipping notification email and give them the option to postpone their shipment until the camera or certification is complete–we leave the choice to the customer.

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@fralb5, I understand your point. When I backed the project in 2017, I was super excited to let my family, friends, colleges know that next, I would now be using Linux not only on my laptop but phone as well. For me, it was/is more of having GNU/Linux on my phone.

Now, for my family, friends, colleges a phone is a phone. These days phone is synonymous to a smartphone and vice versa.

If I say I received the phone and the camera does not work it does not portray a nice picture about my phone. I, for one, do not care about megapixel of the camera. It should be working. I have a feeling a CHDK kind of hack can be thought of for the Librem 5 camera. Sure it will come later. But an RTM product that is “now shipping” should have working functionality for all the components.

As you said, if early backers are beta-testers then count me in. No fuss about it. But the Evergreen version is a advertised as “Now Shipping”. This translates as a RTM product.

To clarify, I am not being against Purism or do not want to belittle their effort. Its’ that I just do not like the way they play and twist with words.

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We aren’t twisting words. I see this a lot in this forum where people jump to their own conclusions about our statements, add their own words and misconceptions to them, and then accuse us of being misleading (which implies an attempt to deceive). The more reasonable response would be to acknowledge that you perhaps jumped to a conclusion or misunderstood our words.

We try to be very careful about how we phrase things because we know people jump to conclusions, read into our words, misunderstand things, and then blame us for their misunderstanding. We spend a lot of effort on the phrasing–in particular in our important posts–for this reason yet despite it we will inevitably have people misunderstand, draw their own conclusions, and then blame us for their mistake.

We have Evergreen phones and have started shipping them. There are some core features (in particular the camera driver) we intended on having completed by this time but we still working on it. That feature will come in future software updates.

We could have just held back shipping until it’s done, but we assumed that many of our customers would rather have their phone now instead of wait. Yet instead of just assuming that, we ask each customer whether they would prefer to wait or not. So far I don’t believe we have run into a customer who wants to wait for the camera driver, but if you are an exception it’s no problem, when we get to your order (if the camera driver isn’t done by then) you can tell us to hold your phone until it’s done.

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I think when more backers get their phone and have a chance to play with it, it will become obvious that it has all been worth it and that the developers and Purism have achieved something astounding.

Here’s a short summary of my impressions after two weeks of using the L5-Evergreen.

The best things about it:

  1. It’s GNU/Linux!
  2. It’s a computer.
  3. It’s private and secure.
  4. It potentially has thousands of applications to draw from.
  5. It will always get updates. (Or write your own.)
  6. It’s user-serviceable.
  7. It’s not “disposable” hardware.
  8. Any bug fixes and refinements will be dealt with quickly.
  9. Its FOSS software will improve at a rapid pace.
  10. It has a ready-built support network (Purism plus community at large).
  11. Most of the basic apps work now.
  12. I have control; I can make it do new things.

What could be better:

  1. Call quality needs improvement.
  2. VoLTE absolutely must be implemented ASAP.
  3. Suspend is needed.
  4. Photography needs to be enabled.
  5. Maps & navigation are required.
  6. Battery life still needs improvement.
  7. Charging duration could be shortened.
  8. Your must-have proprietary apps may not ever get ported.
  9. phosh crashes happen every now and then.
  10. A more internationally-applicable modem would be nice.
  11. Thickness/heaviness take some getting used to.

Conclusion

Would I buy the Librem 5 again? Absolutely.

Will I use it as my main phone (assuming it gets VoLTE)? Yes, eventually. Soon, hopefully.

Do I wish it weren’t so thick? Definitely.

Would I hesitate to buy the next or a later version from Purism? No, assuming I need a new device or if that device is significantly different and better.

Was it worth the price? Without a doubt. I realize the price has increased, so the buyer will have to decide whether it’s worth it to them. I typically buy somewhat expensive phones anyway, so not a big deal to me. And with many improvements and new features in the pipeline, it’s only going to get better and better.

Edit: to add “GNU/” to “Linux.”

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How is the certification going on? Any details on that?

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Thanks much for clarifying on the camera @Kyle_Rankin. Appreciate your honest reply.

Me too. Just that I want Purism to reduce on the thickness aspect of the phone.

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Maybe better to write “GNU/Linux” there, otherwise some besserwisser will inevitably come and tell you that Android phones are also running Linux (the Linux kernel). Also, good to give some credit to GNU.

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This alone makes it worth it. I hate when now I need to select even laptops from the perspective “is it locked?” which is translated to “will I be able to wipe windows and install linux there?”. Unfortunately neither purism nor s76 offer form factors I’m after so I need to fish it out of the swamp market.
In the phone area I need to pull my form-factor preferences in as there’s pretty much no other choices nowadays.

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Then you have pretty much answered your own question. Right?

I don’t accept that there is only one definition of RTM but if you accept yours then you have your answer.

Let’s be absolutely clear: Purism is disclosing in the shipping email that the camera is not yet working.

There is nothing misleading about that.

I was one who nominated that a (rear, non-selfie) camera is actually a pretty important piece of functionality for me personally (after, you know, doing actual calls and texts) but I will still be happy to receive the phone without a working camera.

Take into account that the original crowdfunders were prepared to put money up for this phone knowing that there was some risk that for some reason it wouldn’t ever be delivered at all. By that standard getting a phone at all is a win.

I am pretty sure that only original crowdfunders are getting the phone at this stage, and probably only early backers from among the original crowdfunders. Clearly that group has different expectations about what “ready” means and about what level of completeness is available today.

If someone walks in off the street and buys one today (metaphorically speaking) then by the time they get their phone, I would expect a much greater level of completeness - and closer to your idea of “ready”.

Will it ever be “complete”? Probably not. If I know the type of early backer customer, there will always be something to tinker with. :wink:

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We can look forward to @rinigus excellent Pure Maps for this: see A nice Free-Software GPS navi app and https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1556433#post1556433

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I am yet to receive the modem selection / shipping email. But if Purism is making it clear upfront before shipping the phone then it is understood that they are being transparent. Since I do not know this fact so I would say Purism is being honest here and doing the right thing.

By RTM, I meant all the functionality working. And since it is GNU/Linux the tinkering aspect is almost always there.

Thanks for making the camera disclosure point.

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Actually I dislike the humongous amount of pixels they default to on phone cameras. You want to transmit it via message and it ends up being converted to a smaller size anyway and it may just eat up monthly bandwidth if you’re on a cheap service. It’s not like we’re all photographers for National Geographic (there’s a hidden joke there). How much detail do we really need to transmit?

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I agree, it’s another one of those things that Big Tech have successfully indoctrinated people with, like the belief that it’s important for a phone to be extremely thin (even though they anyway put it in a thing leather thingy) and that you need a “retina” display that has a resolution far beyond the point where a normal person can even tell the difference. It’s good for manufacturers who can use these things to persuade customers to buy new phones ridiculously often.

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That is the exact point I had made. Camera megapixels do not matter much for me too. Since you brought up the National Geographic point, I think a good picture has more to do with the lighting effect and ability of person to take great shots.

A CHDK kind of hack can definitely be thought of once Librem 5 camera software is available for use.

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Hi Kyle_Rankin,

As reported by amarok cellular calls made using a SIM are somewhat “muffled” & the call quality is not great, was this issue known before shipping?

Thanks in advance

LinuxNew

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I’ve had the opposite experience. The call quality on my Dogwood phone was good and Evergreen was better. When I’ve made calls people seem to think the audio quality is good. I wonder if amarok needs to investigate mixer settings, has a bad signal where they are, or something else.

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With respect to cellular calls, it’s also worth noting that as the Librem 5 does not yet support VoLTE, the phone drops from LTE to 3g/2g when making traditional cellular calls. I’ve noticed in some areas where I’ve had strong LTE signal I had weak 3g/2g signal and that could account for it as well.

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It will be interesting to see what others say.

Is call quality perfect or good and a work in progress?

Having cellular calls will be important.

Can 4G work?