Librem 5 USA - Read Before Ordering

aipei · August 2, 2021, 8:15am

02/08/2021 (AEST)

I ordered mine in April. I received an email 2 days ago saying I should expect it in October.
That is 6 months.

It is not ‘approximately 6 to 8 weeks’ It’s no where near that margin.

“They weren’t shipping in April.”
True, let’s look at the April shipping page, when I ordered.

“A few months.” Fair enough.

On the Wayback Machine, the first recorded change to “approximately 6 to 8 weeks” is June 05.

We are now coming up to 2 months (8 weeks) since June 05, but once again, it is approximate not definite.

However, two days ago I received an email that I can now expect mine in October, despite, once again, ordering in April.

If we disregard my order date of April and say I ordered in June, when it was advertised to be 6 to 8 weeks approximately, I would be receiving my order 21 weeks after my order date (presuming it is shipped in October) and this shipping expectation date has not changed since.

I cannot understate how awful this market practice is. Completely unrealistic expectations for new purchasers. Then the community come to Purism’s defense saying ‘they had difficulties’ and whatnot.

They have been having difficulties for 4 years now. After the first year or two, it becomes the company’s responsibility to take those ‘difficulties’ into consideration, due to the frequency, and add that to the shipping expectation date.

Now, I’ll be getting comments from Purism supporters coming directly to their defense and putting me at fault. Is no fault to be claimed by the company conducting this?

Set the shipping time for 20 - 24 weeks approximately. Stop luring new purchasers and then when they realise they’re not getting their purchase within the provided timeframe declining their refund because it’s against your policy?

Purism’s practice is maliciously or negligently baiting funding and then locking people in with their refund policy despite their misleading shipping time. For a company with a core principle of transparency, their transparency, or lack thereof, is unacceptable.

steve · August 2, 2021, 12:21pm

Unfortunately I agree, though, I’m not sure it’s malicious,
They seem to have a tendency to over-promise in terms of when you’ll get things. I honestly think they should start multiplying their expected shipping times by 3 for things they have not reached shipping parity for, or perhaps just going with “soon” as as an estimate.

Reminds me of an old statement in software Take how long you think it will take and multiply it by three for your estimate, as it’ll always take longer than you think.

However, they do seem to deliver on what they say they will deliver. Which is very important, even if they are slow.

I haven’t quite decided if it’s:

Take the time to do things right, don’t worry about when we claim it’ll be ready. (Which is commendable, though they should give better estimates on what to expect)
Promise more up front to get more people paying early
Poor planning

I’ll note that from the software perspective on what I’ve seen, they seem to be looking at the long term (getting code upstreamed, making use of existing projects as much as possible, etc). The phone I received seems to be pretty good quality as well. Thus I want to say #1. However, it’s not something that can be said with certainty.

aipei · August 2, 2021, 12:29pm

The recent emails regarding their ‘investor funding’ leads me to believe it’s 2.

aipei · August 2, 2021, 12:47pm

Why was this post moved to Round Table when this one wasn’t? @irvinewade

EDIT: Interesting that the reddit thread now can’t see the link.

I’m not sure if it’s the intention, but it looks like Purism is censoring criticism. ‘Round Table’ is a private section in which the public can’t see the post.

johny · August 2, 2021, 2:04pm

Why put the thread behind a login wall? What is purism afraid of, transparency?

taylor-williamc · August 2, 2021, 2:13pm

I would argue that the round table category is more appropriate, given its description

This forum category is intended for certain types of topics that are either non-technical, highly subjective, or otherwise don’t fit well within other existing categories. This might also include general discussions about operations, philosophy, business, etc. Heated discussions may sometimes occur with strong opinions, but remember to keep it civil and constructive. Assume people mean well, are doing what they can, and that insights and information may take time to emerge.

Any forum regular, regardless of any official affiliation with Purism, can reorganize topics into other categories, so it does not necessarily reflect any intention from Purism.

veleno · August 2, 2021, 2:39pm

Thank you!!! That’s exactly my suspect that stopped me to upgrade!
I’ll wait non-USA hoping it’ll arrive one day

amarok · August 2, 2021, 5:06pm

If you install Blokada or TrackerControl you will see immediately that this statement is not factual, although /e/ comes very close, depending on whether you install bad apps yourself or not.

See this white paper (PDF): https://e.foundation/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/e-state-of-degooglisation.pdf
which also links from this FAQ: https://doc.e.foundation/what-s-e#degoogling--ungoogling

joao.azevedo · August 2, 2021, 5:49pm

ok there is something wrong on that information. Production in October is for non Librem 5 USA devices.

I will PM you about this because I will need your order number.

aipei · August 2, 2021, 10:20pm

Hey Joao, thank you for responding.

I ordered a Librem 5 USA.

aipei · August 2, 2021, 10:22pm

Potentially, sure. But I’d question why it’s the only section to be hidden behind a login-wall.

amosbatto · August 3, 2021, 12:25am

For what it is worth, I agree that this post should be classified under “Librem 5” and not under “Round Table”.

However, I do wonder if the information is correct, since I just received a Librem 5 USA.

aipei · August 3, 2021, 12:35am

For sake of transparency, this is the email I received. I was explicitly told my Librem 5 USA.

irvinewade · August 3, 2021, 1:22am

Nope. Purism had nothing to do with it.

I moved it because it looked to be chock full of your personal opinions and agenda. If it were being censored then it would have disappeared, or at least be closed (locked), neither of which happened.

As it is, well, people are free to engage in further futile argument and argy-bargy. Go your hardest …

kagixa · August 3, 2021, 1:24am

It seems to me that you are stretching it quite a bit. For some reason you have erased the day of April from your picture (so much “for sake of transparency”…), but a “2” appears as what seems to be a first digit, which means you ordered your phone in a day between 20th and 30th of April. Your wayback machine says “Place your order now, get in approximately 6 to 8 weeks!” in Purism’s announcement, which means that you should have received your phone by 30th of June at the latest. That means that so far Purism is one month late (one month).

Then, two days ago, you received the email from Purism saying that you will receive your phone “within two months time”. Maybe your first language is not English, but “within two months time” does not mean after two months, it means that your phone will be shipped any day starting from 1st of August until 30th of September.

In the best case scenario your phone will be shipped tomorrow, with one month delay. In the worst case scenario your phone will be shipped by the end of September, with a total delay of three months.

But you don’t know which one it will be yet, and so far Purism is only one month late with your phone. Does it make sense to start a smear campaign both here and on Reddit for a delay of one month? Wouldn’t it be better to wait, stick to the facts, and complain for your very very long waiting after you have received a phone really too late according to you?

It seems to me that rather than complaining about your month delay you felt the urgent need to vent about Purism “luring new purchasers”.

It’s okay if you are happy with that. Boring for me.

aipei · August 3, 2021, 1:25am

You’ve moved it into a section that the public, who are the demographic affected by this, cannot access.

The demographic of this entire thread are the people who aren’t a part of the forums, who have not ordered a Librem 5 USA yet.

Can you understand why you moving into a section where only members actively involved in the Purism thread can access, can be interpreted as suspicious?

The thread I linked is full of personal opinions, look at the summary provided by the poster.

aipei · August 3, 2021, 1:36am

“That means that so far Purism is one month late”

Or, 4 weeks (50% of their approximate shipping time).

“That means that so far Purism is one month late”

Remember, I ordered in April. They still have to get through April’s backlog, May’s backlog and June’s backlog.

“It seems to me that rather than complaining about your month delay you felt the urgent need to vent about Purism “luring new purchasers”.”

I ordered my phone in April. It has been 14 weeks since I ordered it. Thereoetically, if I am the next person in line, the estimated shipping time should be adjusted. However, I can almost guarantee you I’m not the next person in line.

Ultimately, it takes 20 seconds to go to the Librem 5 USA order page and alter the approximate shipping date. However, they haven’t done that. Despite well knowing, that people who ordered their Librem 5 USA 14 weeks ago have still not received it.
They have not reached shipping parity and more importantly, if you go to the latest news update you can see

If the phone is in stock, why am I still waiting?

kagixa · August 3, 2021, 1:48am

There might be many answers to that question, but you are asking to the wrong people. A forum is populated by the community – people like you – while you should ask Purism instead if you really want an answer to your curiosity.

Rather, a striking question comes to my mind after reading your story. Why buying a phone for a price which clearly implied a leap of faith, hope, generosity and good will from a costumer, for then exploding in resentment already after a month of delay? That does not really strike me as a “typical” behavior from a Librem 5 USA purchaser – I mean, I don’t want to imply with certainty that you are projecting your own feeling of shame for spending so much money for a phone into the manufacturer’s “mistakes” (delays), but what other explanation can there be?

aipei · August 3, 2021, 1:49am

And before I get told to “wait 60 days”.

60 days ago, it was 03/06/2021.

Look at the news post on 02/06/2021.

60 days.

And before that, https://puri.sm/posts/manufacturing-the-librem-5-usa-phone-in-the-united-states-of-america/

irvinewade · August 3, 2021, 1:49am

Yes (although I wouldn’t use the word “suspicious” - what exactly are you suspecting? I already said that Purism has zero role in moving this topic.).

Yes. Do you think it too should be moved to Round Table? It is probably an equally pointless topic. It will no doubt eventually go off the rails into wild digressions, and maybe a bit of name calling … and then it might be either closed or moved.

That is the reality of this forum … often veering off topic.

You are still free to express your opinion in this topic and plenty of people will read your opinion and disagree with it, and argue against you.

If you actually have a problem with the delivery of your phone, only Purism can sort that out for you - and this forum is not a formal support channel.