New Post: Librem 14 Update: Shipping Starts in February with Extended Battery

Hardware
57

Hey Kyle
I agree it would feel ‘spammie’ to get an email with no actual update.
However, I also agree with a lot of people on the forum that something’s missing in your communication.
The newsletter is great, but the last time something was said about the librem 14 timescale was 29-9-2020… all the way at the bottom, as a ‘by the way’ we won’t ship untill december.
That’s not a concerned way to find out that the shipping of the expensive laptop you bought a few weeks before, to support Purism, is going to be delayed.

I think the problem is not necessarily the delay itself, most people, like myself, understand.
The problem is, that you don’t bring these updates to the people who invested to support you.
Maybe it’s your policy to not communicate personally. That’s fine, but at least communicate that you won’t be communicating via email. Send an email about the ways you can check the status of your purchase. And really update them.

The following I’ll say, is because I believe in Purism and I want all the best for the company: you will lose customers on this lack of communication in the future.
Why?
I went to this forum, because I didn’t hear anything. And because the blog updates were old. And because there was nothing in the newsletter about Librem 14 anymore. But most people here, on the forum, are no ‘ordinary’ customers. They bought and supported your products because the searched for something specific. They’re interested in open source, or in the hardware, or in security, or support the way you work, etc. They are curious. They go here to check out what’s going on, to ask questions etc.
If the company goes bigger, there will be other customers, that are not going to search for an update and information on a forum themselves. They expect to get this info in there emailbox.

Let me put it like this: I encouraged my family and friends to go for Purism products when they need a new device. They’re interested, but they are not so interested in the background. They want to buy something that is secure and open source, but they won’t dive too deep. They are not the kind of people that will go to this forum.
When I didn’t receive any emails about the delays or updates concerning Librem 14, I stopped promoting Purism for my friends and family, because those are the customers that won’t understand this communication. They won’t understand that you get a confirmation email of your purchase and don’t hear anything anymore. You have to help them a little. They are not the kind of customer that will fish for information on a forum, or check the website to get unpersonal updates about the status of their device. They are the kind of customer that appreciate kindness and ‘customor friendlyness’ above all.

Something that frustrates customers in this world most, is being ignored. They’re like people: they need a little attention :slight_smile:

Hopefully you will make some better communication moves in the future, just for the sake of Purisms future.

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58

All excellent points. And I will add that newbies to the Linux scene such as myself look through a lot of other Linux forum posts and I can tell you I felt very uneasy ordering the 14 with all the Purism bashing on those other forums about lots of promises no communication and never receiving anything that actually functions. The Purism rep elsewhere isn’t good.

Honestly most people that I’ve spoken with have done the same research and have backpedaled quickly saying they will wait until they can start shipping products when people order them on a regular basis. Adding little, or no, or non detailed communication to all that and you get folks looking for other options and aren’t quite as concerned about the depth that Purism goes to insure privacy in every way possible.

The non technical customers don’t want to hear any excuses (no matter how correct they are) as to why something they ordered months ago has been delayed again. They are used to instant gratification.

Here, I suppose you have folks like me that are mixed. While I am big on privacy and security and love the lengths that Purism goes to to give that to their customers, and I also understand how delays in manufacturing delays me getting my product, I still want answers quickly as to why, in detail, and then what’s gonna be done to rectify it, and when am I going to get it…all things that are generally impossible but it’s what we have grown used to.

So most people do the only other thing they’ve grown used to doing when they’re unhappy about something, they go on social media and complain, it’s their only recourse.

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59

Thank you for voicing my concerns in a much better way than I ever could :slight_smile: and to make matters worse, purism is not winning back any trust with me so far. I contacted the support on Sunday (ok that’s no work day) but have not heared anything from them. Not even an acknowledgement that they got my email…

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60

I am not sure there is any solution to this issue: Purism is still in the missionary phase. They ask us to pre-order in order to underwrite the development of devices that we think are valuable and important and that a purely profit oriented company would probably never do because it makes reaching profitability more challenging.

Edit:

I would add that most of the angry posters I see on this forum seem not to have understood that and therefore have unreasonable expectations (in my opinion).

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61

Agreed, certainly no easy solution. Right now Purism is a tech/privacy company, in, as you say, missionary phase, finding it’s way, focused on developing their products the best the can, and PR is not their focus, and, unfortunately, for many customers, they don’t get that. Maybe because they see themselves as a normal retail customer dealing with a retailer, and not an investor, investing in a company in early development stages trying to give best guesses when something will be done, getting beat up when they are wrong, and sometimes wishing to avoid that, so entertain the idea of saying nothing (mistake IMO) to avoid the hassles.

But, communication will need to be addressed at some point, if they wish to grow, and I’m guessing they do. Might just take one PR experienced person, willing to either donate time, or work part time on the cheap, that believes in what they do, to handle that. Answer emails, post weekly or bi weekly updates, talk about issues facing Prism, sharing cookie recipes, etc. to keep everyone in the loop.

Ok, maybe not the recipes so much, but still… :rofl:

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62

Wow, i finally got an answer from your support, and it only made matters worse.
So whatever i do, i wont get a computer in February. Even if i go with the setup that i did not order, i wont get it in February. It seems i made the mistake to order it to late (in December, when your shop stated delivery in January…) And if i read between the lines of you support Mail, because of that reason i could get my laptop maybe evene later than March! great!!!

As i wrote here and to you Support, THIS IS NOT A TOY, i need a laptop for work as a Journalist. So i asked for a refund, not possible. Only when my laptop would be ready to ship, and you cant tell me when this would be the case. So i even cant buy me a nother Laptop from a nother company that can ship its machine despite the pandemic. So im stuck with nothing! thank you Purism. Thx a lot! Your business dealings are close to fraud. And you can be sure, that i wont recomend anything from your company to anyone.

63

We’ve seen negative reactions like yours, on this forum, over and over again.

And Purism seems to be incapable to understand what they are doing wrong. And they continue making dissatisfied and angry customers. It’s getting absurd.

Purism could simply avoid that by:

  • write a note on the product shop page about the risk of delays and that funds are used to make the product so refunds are not possible at any time
  • include a ‘Status of the product’ section into the current idealized product pages. Show the real status so people know what they are buying. Librem 5 is the worst regarding that.
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64

Agreed, it they would have been that honest, i would not have wasted my time and money on this. Now i am stuck without a fesable option. And that is why i feel that Librems business is close to Fraud…

65

I understand your frustration. I really do.

I had ordered my L15 v4 on 23th of december 2020 to reward myself with a machine for the upcoming project. It was my christmas gift to myself.
I had chosen to pay by credit card as I had already done it in june with my first L15 v4. Success.
I got an acknowledge mail for my order.
I heard nothing, but well, it was holidays.
Around the 10th of january, I got nervous and finally asked support about it.

They told me my order was cancelled.

Yes, the annoying thing is the lack of communication.

Had I known, that these were the last devices of the L15 v4 to ever be sold, I would have ordered earlier or menaced support about the status. But not only did the shop pretend, there were still devices in stock, while there weren’t. But also I would have still gotten me one via ebay (which is gone by now).

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66

i hope you got at least your money back? i will never ever tell any contact of mine to buy a Librem device, even if the devices are great, and i do belive that, their business attitude ist just the worst.

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67

You’ve made some great points and I hear you. I also appreciate your measured and constructive way you wrote your feedback. I had thought that we had communicated with individual Librem 14 owners over email when there have been significant shipping updates (like we have been doing with Librem 5) but it looks like we didn’t do that in the fall. I apologize as that’s definitely something we should have done.

For what it’s worth, we are sending out emails this week for Librem 14 customers with the information in the blog post we sent. And I’ll think about some ways we can incorporate some of your suggestions going forward.

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69

Sorry Kyle, but there are no Librem 14 owners, there are no librem 14, so there cant be any owners right?
And i am one of your customers, that did not get any information. And you realy should update your Webshop, and inform potential Customers about what they are getting into. I just checked your shop and my invoice. There are no information what so ever, about potential delays, AND more important about the fact that you wont refund your customers… i find that unfair.

70

I guess you got me? I suppose I should have written customer like I did the second time.

As far as the shop goes, we do take the effort to keep shipping estimates on pre-order products on the shop, especially for pre-orders, up to date based on our best information. In the process of writing this blog post, knowing that the shipping was to be delayed, I personally updated the shop to make sure the shipping estimate was correct.

The refund policy for pre-orders/crowdfunding is on our returns policy page, but you make a good point that it should be featured more prominently on the shop as well.

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72

Yes you realy should feature the information that you wont refund more prominent, and to be honest, that would have prevented me from buying one. Because i need a laptop for my Business not for toying around. And i knew that this was a pre order, and i expected delay, i expected a delay into February… But not longer. And you are leaving me hanging now… i deeply dissapointed :frowning:

73

So I suppose we should be expecting shipping notification emails, address confirmation, etc in the next 2 weeks? This is me not bugging you about it again Kyle :wink:

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74

It says now:

Expected to ship February 2021.

If someone pre-order now, their laptop will be shipped then? Or it refers to the first ever to be shipped Librem 14?

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75

That’s my understanding. But we also need to reconcile orders that added a 2nd drive to see whether they want to proceed without it, or wait until the post-Chinese-New-Year shipment. Based on that and the # of outstanding orders, (and new orders that keep coming in), there’s a chance I might need to update it again to reflect shipping after CNY. Up until you hit shipping parity, since you are also always getting new incoming orders, estimates like this become moving targets.

76

Actually @eugenr thanks for bringing that up. I just looked into that based on your prompting and it turns out we did cross that threshold already, so I updated the shop to reflect both when pre-orders will start shipping, and when orders placed today should ship.

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77

I don’t see how this comment adds to the discussion.

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78

The money wasn’t even debited from my credit card, that was the other funny thing.
But I love my Librem so much, that I will stick to Purism. Also, I like and appreciate so much the idea, that they wage the risk of starting a hardware business to market privacy respecting devices, that I want to support the cause.
Money is not that critical with me, so I would also pay in advance if I only get the device.
:heartbeat: Still in love with Librem! :heartbeat:

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