Phone calls without SIM

Cuious, how would phone calls work without a SIM card? Something like WhatsApp I imagine. (Virtual SIM cards anyone?)

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Can you explain more what you are asking?

A phone without a SIM can’t get mobile data and therefore can’t use any messaging apps.

As far as I can see, the only way a phone without a SIM can make calls is when it is on WiFi (for those mobile service providers that support that; and also any messaging apps) - and emergency services of course (if it actually works).

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Tracy talks about the eSIM:

As i read this, the Phone have to support this Kind of Chip on its Mainbord. Not sure if someone create a physical Card for eSIM functionality like an upgrade Adapter. I read only about Chips inside of Smartphones like TPM for Example as an Enclave to store that kind of Information. And as i understood the eSIM will be Managed through your Mobile Provider and your Modem-Software so have no free and Open Source feelings here…

Purism however could Build new Hardware and have this Option like the Awesome Simcards too.

However. This IS a virtual SIM Card, so no you have one. And WhatsApp need a Phone Number to Work. However if you own a Contract to a Mobile Provider with some Phone Number you could migrate that old number to another new Phone-Number in EU.

If you like to have some kind of Messaging without Phone Number, try Signal in Future or just XMPP with (E-Mail like) Addresses instead of Phone numbers.

Yes Internet “Phone Calls” based on webrtc are common, and used by many Applications to connect Humans.

Its open for everyone like with Jami. Its just hard to distribute that option because everyone is so focused on closed sources Mainstream options.

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In addition to messaging apps, as @irvinewade mentioned: an option is to add a VOIP account/phone number to the phone and use SIP dialing, either solely over wifi, or in combination with a data-only SIM.

In the U.S., you may get friction from the domestic carriers if you attempt to use a data-only SIM in a telephone, but you can overcome that by using an international data-SIM card designed for travelers (which piggybacks on the local mobile carrier(s)’ network(s)).

Of course, using a data-only SIM is technically not in the scenario you asked about, since it’s in fact a SIM card; it’s just not a normal mobile carrier SIM card that includes a phone number.

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They have. Soprani.ca (who also run JMP.chat XMPP messaging/calling app) have an eSIM adapter capable of loading multiple eSIM profiles from the usual merchant suspects.

I believe there’s another company that offers those, too. (esim.me).

An eSIM can be provided by a mobile service provider, or by a third party, e.g. a company that sells date-limited roaming eSIMs for travel purposes. And yes, you need either a phone that supports eSIMs, or one of the aforementioned adapters.

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Link to your earlier topic: New, from Soprani.ca/JMP Chat: an eSIM adapter

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Now I’m wondering why my question about a SIM was flagged as hidden as off-topic (albeit temporarily). I didn’t think my post was offensive, unless it was a logic offense.

It was more along the lines of a SIM in a typical linux computer. I think Amarok answered that for me.

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I suspect it wasn’t immediately obvious to the moderator what making phone calls with/without a SIM had to do with flashing a Librem 5 from within a VM. :slight_smile:

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A typical Linux computer would be on the local network (whether via WiFi or via ethernet) and could make phone calls using e.g. VoIP or e.g. any messaging application / web site that makes calls that are adequate for the intended purpose (audio / video). You don’t need a SIM for either of those (and I hope you never do!).

The adapter that @amarok talks about may well be usable in a typical Linux computer but I am not sure that there would be many applications on the computer that could make use of the resulting SIM.

The basic goal and purpose of a SIM card is to … hold an identity that identifies you to a mobile service provider (your Subscriber Identity) and a secret key that authenticates you under that identity to the mobile service provider, and protect the secret key from discovery even by someone in possession of the SIM card, and protect the secret key from theft and/or abuse by using a PIN that allows only limited attempts.

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I agree. Also without the internet, the same linux computer would need to transmit on the phone frequency spectrum to a cell tower or something of that nature.

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To call without a SIM you would need to modify the firmware and software the modem runs, so that it provides what ever information you want (1) to the cell tower, not what information the SIM provides? :thinking:

(1) - what ever information you want - That’s probably the hardest thing, as you would need to basically hack into phone companies networks.

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I can make phone calls from my Librem 5 with no SIM card installed using VOIP.ms, a SIP provider. You have to specify an old codec in voip.ms. The Gnome phone dialer on your Librem 5 can be configured with your SIP account information. The call is made via WIFI. But there is one catch. That old codec is the only one that will work, and the voice quality is extremely bad.

Using an eSIM on a non-Google phone is possible. But setting up the eSIM account on a linux phone is impossible. I also have a grapheneOS Pixil 6 phone. GrapheneOS gives you god-like powers over the Google software on that phone. Setting up an eSIM requires the Google services and google framework to be installed. So I installed those elements anonymously from the Aurora store, in to an isolated sandbox. The sandbox takes away Google’s admin privileges and forces google to play nice. Then I anonymously installed the eSIM configuration app from the Aurora Store. With that stuff installed, I got the eSIM installed, configured, and working. Then I uninstalled all of the Google stuff and the eSIM still works. When GrapheneOS uninstalls the Google stuff, it really gets uninstalled.

I am not a genius to figure this out. GrapheneOS has some good instructions built in to it. I just followed the instructions.

One interesting thing happened while installing the eSIM. I had the eSIM barcode on the screen of my android phone (where I downloaded it to) at one point while shuffling things around to prepare to install the eSIM to my Pixil 6. From a few feet away and with no intent, the camera of the Pixil 6 made a brief, unintended line-of-sight connection to the screen of my android phone. It happened at an odd angle, from a distance, and couldn’t have lasted for more than a small fraction of a second as I accidentally dropped the phone and the direction of the screen went totally random as the phone fell to the floor. I heard a confirmation beep come from the Pixil 6 before I realized what had happened. The eSIM was installed. It was really spooky what little the camera required to read that barcode image. A few feet away at an odd angle for a fraction of a second was all it had to see to grab that complex image and to know what to do with it. In any competition, my human eyes and reflexes would be no match. I couldn’t even keep the camera away from the barcode image long enough for me to finish reading the insrructions.

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JMP.chat has a esim adapter that works in the L5

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Indeed, as mentioned above.

And, @SteveR, you don’t need an Android or an iOS device to load the eSIMS. Soprani (JMP team) wrote on their blog:

What if you don’t have an Android device at all? No problem, there are a few other options for writing eSIMs to the adapter. You can get a PC/SC reader device (about $20 on Amazon for example) and then use a tool such as lpac to download and write eSIMs to the adapter from your PC. Some other cell modems may also be supported by lpac directly. Finally, there is work in progress on an optional tool that will be able to use a server (optionally self-hosted) to facilitate downloading eSIMs with just the SIM Toolkit menus.

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