Phone delay question


#1

I read the blog post.i read the production if nothing else happen will be on april what does it mean for shipment? The product will be shipped in april too?


#2

First, thanks @nicole.faerber for the detailed progress update, and kudos to Purism for being transparent on the issue.

I have to say, I’m not surprised. I always expected some delay, and a year ago even suggested that I’d rather wait some more months than going with i.MX6. Seems like that’s exactly what’s happening :wink:

On the plus side, they’ll have ~3 more months to improve the first impression (especially for media/reviews).
On the minus side, maybe customs will turn out to be more difficult for the British. :thinking:

On your question, @eagle: I also noticed it’s a bit fuzzy about production / shipment. But what do you expect? The listed factors are not in the Hand of Purism, so they cannot give a guarantee. If production starts April 1st, maybe shipment starts April 30th. But if production starts end of April, shipment is in May. There’s still the possibility that production starts before April.
They are just trying to give us a realistic time frame. I appreciate that a lot :slight_smile:


#3

i agree with you, the most important thing is purism succeed on this project, because too much failure on the past for linux phone, and this is the first linux phone project with privacy in mind, so it’s even more important

you are right, it’s too soon for my question, and they can’t have the answer right now, i just wish them to do the best they can, and keep to be transparent with continuos update on the project, people apreaciate it


#4

Thank you very much for the thumbs up :slight_smile:
We are doing the best we can and everyone is working way more than just 8h days. Hardware making is a pretty painful business since there are so many external factors that one self can not influence - one day a part is available and next day it is gone and has 10,20 or more weeks lead time. Or datasheets look shiny and what they promise is awesome! But when have the real thing in hand you suddenly get aware of the fine print and caveats. This can set you back in the most unexpected areas and moments.
But we are getting along! Currently we do not foresee any major roadblockers, still some challenges, but nothing that prevent us from reaching our goal.

That being said I can confirm that our current plan an goal is to start shipping in April. Since we have about 4000 pre orders you expect shipping to stretch over quite a period of time so devices will arrive at backers starting in April and will stretch in May.

We all hope and work hard for avoiding any further delays.

Cheers
nicole


#5

I wish to remind ourselves, that paying in advance for a
product that does’nt exist, is not a mere shopping transaction.
Backing Librem 5 is supporting the people of Purism
by behaving like partners - not customers.

I call upon the people of this forum :
Instead of making a fuss about shipping deadline
let us concentrate on creating an amazing Linux smartphone
free from propietary constraints, even if it takes a bit longer


#6

Nobody is making a fuss. It’s legitimate to ask and discuss about it.


#7

Dear Nicole,
While talking about shipping, can Purism please invoice the European users with an invoice about 0 dollars? If not, we have to pay custom tax here in Europe. I meant the ~600 euros to support an OpenSource project and not, in first place, to buy some electronic gadget.
Thanks

Matthias


#8

I am afraid we can not do that - this would be tax fraud :frowning:

There can also be simple practical reasons against it. Customs is not lobotomized :slight_smile: They recognize such tricks, especially when we start to ship hundreds of these devices which will end up in bigger batches in the central shipping distribution hubs, where also customs is located. So they will figure out that there are phones in these shipments which are unlikely to be worth 0EUR and that this pseudo invoice is just for tax avoidance. This again will then cause them to assume a value or looking it up and you would have to pay the VAT anyway - or they decide to ship the device back to us and we have to pay again for shipping and eventually get sued for this tried tax fraud.

So yes, I understand this concern and I would really like to help but I am afraid we can not help with this.

Cheers
nicole


#9

An open source project your are receiving a physical product from. Asking a company to do something that is illegal because you want to avoid the VAT of your country is pretty low. Instead of asking this company, petition your government.

Besides if what you are saying is completely true (super awesome), then get a refund on the phone, and donate 600 euros to support them. Problem solved!


#10

When I backed the project of Librem5 ordering a phone, I was assured by Purism staff through email (info@puri.sm) that the Librem5 for Europe will be shipped from within Europe. So what is all the fuss about? Unless something has changed and they will not ship from within Europe. In such a case I think that Nicole or someone else should have informed us.

Librem laptops are not shipped from within Europe. But there was a promise that Librem5 will be shipped from within EU.


#11

antonis,

Could you please copy that e-mail here (ofc, without any private details). I have checked my Order Confirmation and it does not say anything about that.

Re/ 2sidbetter’s arguments: VAT and tax in general is used by the German authorities to spy even better against the individuals. That I now should pay VAT for buying an OpenSource device to exactly avoid this (i.e. with kill switches) is a bit of a joke. Don’t you agree?

Thanks

Thanks


#12

Theoretically I agree that your view is valid.
However, I do not think they can do anything if they ship from US.

I looked through my email and did not find it. I will look again and if I find it I will forward it to you. However, I am positive that it has been written several times in the forum too.

If I find something I will forward.


#13

Aha. OK now I see what has happened. Before I order the phone I checked the FAQ. The FAQ was saying that “we have partnered with a GE/UK/EU retailer” and actually there was an error in the ordering process that was charging 80 euros for shipping. I wrote to support@puri.sm saying that 80 euros from UK to Greece is too much. I received an answer from Mladen Pejaković from support saying they fixed it and I should try again. And indeed it charged me 0 euros for shipping.

Now I see that they have removed the phrase that they have partnered with a UK retailer. Or I can not find it. Dear Nicole, if you have in the mean time changed your FAQ on this, it is not fair.

Can you please check. Thank you.


#14

Breaking the law isn’t the solution regardless. Do you take advantage of health care, public transportation, Kindergeld? The funding for that all comes from the VAT you are trying now to dodge. Kommisch oder?


#15

… and not to forget: tanks, jets and wars. But, in principle you are right: the only way is a regime change. We should end here for being OT.


#16

I understand that this should not be in the forum of purism but dear 2disbetter you could be, and should be right, but historically you are wrong. Look at how the Nothern Europe has destroyed the economy of the South Europe with all kind of tricks. Anyway if Purism administrator decides to remove this, no problem, I understand.

However Nicole should talk to support because I was re-assured that Librem5 would be shipped within EU before I placed my order.


#17

There is no real argument here other than someone looking to justify doing something illegal.


#18

No. This depends highly on how you interpret what happened. IMHO, I sponsored in October $599 to some project without knowing exactly what I will get for. It could even happen that at the end there is no product at all and the 599 are lost. The receiver could say at the end after some months here is what the turn out is and its commercial value is (on which the VAT is to pay) only fifty bucks.


#19

A in my humble opinion legal workaround is to have the phone shipped to someone in the USA (if possible) and have it sent to you as a present.


#20

There is a german website who sell librem laptops i think they could just ship the phone from there. There is nothing against the law, we backed a project not bought a product, i’m not a lawyer but should be different