Pre-order EU customs tax

If i pre-order the librem 5, will I have to pay customs tax as a UK citizen.

Aint that a question. How will Brexit affect it? Who really knows?

The stated position is that the price listed is the price previous to VAT or any customs.


I guess but if it turns out we don’t end up leaving and it gets delayed even more, will I have to pay import tax if we are still considered a part of the EU becuase they ship from US but purism team says that they will setup shipment from Germany to avoid this stupid customs tax but I’ve heard rumors that isn’t fully settled yet and I’m starting to worry if it even will by shipping time.

@nicole.faerber has posted elsewhere that the EU distribution location goal is not and was not ever going to help with avoiding VAT. The EU distribution point would allow for more convenient warranty repair/replacement but VAT would still be calculated based on buying the item from the US as that is how she stated the law works.

There’s a ton of debate about whether or not Purism could do this or that to reduce the tax burden on the customer or bypass taxes all together. Every one of these discussions reads to me as ways people are trying to get Purism to help with Tax evasion which they have said they will not do.

TLDR yes you will have to pay your taxes regardless of if Purism gets an EU relay point set up or not.


Thanks for the information. Not very great news but was helpful. The phone is still quite a high price for what I can really afford ATM so that’s why I was wondering if I could avoid the tax of 20 percent which has a paper delivered to my house to tell me to pay money and if it happens that this sheet didn’t make it to my home, then I would never recieve the product. Oh well.

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@user1 Sorry for off-topic, but are you FitGirl?

Nope. I just like her pircture.

Fitgirl? :thinking: That’s Amélie Poulain :face_with_monocle:


Yes I know but is where we are refering to. the image is on all installation of pirated video ganes from the website and the creator of the website uses the image as her profile picture.

Is this above interpretation of what someone said or some kind of reinterpretation of something that you see, clearly, as such/fact? In order that I pay my VAT for the product that is coming from non-EU country, very same product need to arrive to EU territory, and be cleared through responsible country Customs Office. If Purism sends their products to B2B the very same is responsible to collect VAT. If Purism sends my phone through carrier (DHL), carrier is responsible to collect the VAT. What are you trying to say? If Purism strategy is to keep sending piece by piece or sends the whole batch size bought from EU customers with container and deliver those piece by piece after customers transfer their money needed for VAT in in advance I don’t care. Sure is only that I need to pay related VAT rate(s) per piece in advance or I’ll never get product that I purchased, so simple is to read related law, in theory and in practice. Yesterday I payed for my Librem 5 exactly 732.47 USD (minus 699,00 USD for Purism) so I don’t think this was cheaper option for me to buy it, over stripe, from USA.

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This is Nicole’s post I was referencing

All that the statement you bolded stated is that VAT would still be calculated based on it coming from the US (a non-eu country). I didn’t recall the details on collection and in turn didn’t write about when they would be collected.

I was paraphrasing what Nicole wrote, at the time I was in a bit of a rush and didn’t have time to search for the exact post.

I think maybe since your post talks extensively about collection you may have confused calculated and collected.

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Well, as not being kid anymore, I like to be confused as confusion is bringing me forward. And still run on gasoline (100 RON), even though this way is antiquated (and not recommended) it helps me somehow to reach my goals. I need to switch to hybrid or hydrogen and see if this helps (we are already in 2020) me farther. Only thing that counts here is that potential Purism buyers have clear picture on how to get, I’ll repeat, how to get (by paying in advance), Librem 5 through EU security channels (if someone like me want to play this way and wait for DHL to resolve all, requesting “small” fee from their side is self-explanatory and to be expected) to include customs rate of duty even if it is currently 0%, etc. Anyway, someone confused is not a problem for Purism business, but someone stubborn considering/liking to buy some products from Purism might not even be pleased with Splitit payment options because they are not registered as (sort of) European point of sale.

Other notes:
“You were on a vacation abroad, take the goods in the luggage with you and were already before the start of the journey in your own? Maybe the customs will check the accuracy of your information by reference to the serial number of e.g. electronic devices to verify the place of sale! Therefore, we recommend that you keep the invoices of these devices.”

P.S. Every Invoice issued within EU point of sale consists of … sorry, confused again … Calculated and Collected maybe.

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Of course, EU-customers have to pay VAT, but since purism clearly stated and advertised with that they will ship the phones from Germany - “we will be shipping all German (and hopefully EU orders in general) from Germany.” - there should be no customs and especially no fees for passing the package through customs. Several people mentioned that just these passing fees (EXcluding customs and VAT) can be more than 100€ (here or here and more)

But instead of establishing an EU distributor for librem5, purism ended the collaboration with the german reseller floss-shop.

And since July 27, 2019 @nicole.faerber is silent concering EU-shipping, although they promised to ship so.

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Yes, but the difference is in how big the package is, meaning content of it: 1 piece or 1000 pieces of hardware/software unit(s).

@pit, maybe/hopefully I’m just a little bit more patient as you are. You already pointed out what is said and we are aware that CE marking (for Version 1) i something that we cannot leave out of this promise. Also, aware that every registered Shop within EU and so the very FLOSS one have their owner/owners. I’m not running any kind of shop but I somehow believe that mentioned decision was made in dialog and as such (might be temporary solution) resulting as the best way to handle/control delivery of Librem 5, as is, at the moment. Again, I’ll stay patient until batch Evergreen starts to be shipped, because it is not easy to handle small/individual delivery if the Shop crew is not having necessary prerequisites fulfilled to justify the import for free circulation within EU Community.

P.S. Also, might be that @OpojOJirYAlG is seeing our talk here as something out of the question/obsolete yet this is, IMO, to be seen, but not today.

I’ve worked with US companies entering European markets. Using a distributor is one route, but a more modern approach is to use a fulfilment centre. A fulfilment centre means the US business keeps control over sales and their brand, and typically would retain more margin versus a distributor.

Purism would need to get the Chinese to manufacturer AND contract pack the charger etc in China or HK, based on their sales mix for regions, charger types etc. An EU fulfilment centre could contract pack, but they’d charge a premium for it, so it is far cheaper to pack everything in China or HK, versus US or EU labour rates.

Packed product is then shipped to either Purism’s USA HQ or to a European fulfilment centre depending on the sales split. This does not avoid VAT nor import duty (for Purism), but would make it simpler for consumers to buy, faster shipments and avoids any admin faff for consumers importing. The same Purism web shop then takes orders and sends EU orders over the internet direct to the EU fulfilment centre.

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I had to pay tax and customs fees (I’m in Sweden). The phone was shipped with DHL from Carlsbad, CA 92008 US. The todal for me was 1544 SEK.