Purism use this new trend to your and our advantage (Gen z switching to dumb phones)

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Alternative title: We need a Librem 2 device

There is a new trend of gen Z people (and not only) switching to basic feature phones (without internet access).

Proof:

  1. https://youtu.be/BF7w54f14_8?si=W2gkfB_NPIDoAibe&t=141 2023 video

  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KID_haW_mig 2024 video

  3. What is a ‘dumb phone’ and why are so many young people buying them? 2023

  4. The Anti-Smartphone Revolution

  5. Rise of the Dumbphone 2024 video

  6. The quiet comeback of the dumbphone 2023

  7. ‘Dumbphones’ make a comeback 2023

I could go on and on, but I think you guys have got a search engine as well :smiley:

Here is what Google trends has to say:

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TBH I did not expect to see this, lol.

If Purism could manage to make a dumb phone which would be at lease 20% more private than a regular dumb phone and offer it for less than $200 then I hope something fruitful could come out of this.

And then there’s also a need for full QWERTY physical keyboard dumb phones which I see young people talking about (they want Blackberries).

I think Purism has to respond somehow to these new interests and make a profit out of it while offering in return a privacy-focused device.

update Turns out there is a #bringbackflipphones hashtag on tiktok and it has 60M+ views.
There are so many 2023 & 2024 videos and articles that I could link to but they all basically say the same thing “Gen Z and Millenials enjoy doing smartphone detoxes periodically and quite consistently.”

update2 I know there is Mudita Pure and WiPhone both having a FOSS OS, but one isn’t good lookin while the other is expensive. Update: Apparently Mudita’s OS isn’t fully FOSS.

update3 The Pine community is also craving for such a device. And here is what Reddit r/dumbphones want out of such a device. Also, check this one out. Maybe you could join forces with Pine64 to create this device?

update4 From all I have researched this is what I think most folks want from such a dumb device:

  • 2 weeks+ of battery life (with an average of 1h of talk time each day)
  • No wifi, GPS, bluetooth, etc (unnecessary modules and sensors)
  • No internet at all (just for system updates)
  • No extra apps which would distract you in any way, only utility apps. No games!
  • Flip phone & Brick form factors
  • It doesn’t necessarily have to be Linux-based, just Open Source & Privacy-respecting
  • As cheap as possible (such a stripped-down phone shouldn’t cost much to build anyway)
  • It must not have extra features or apps witch would be available after toggling a few settings. This would defeat the purpose of a detox phone. Those who do tech detox want to be hardlimited because they know those time-wasting apps are stronger than their power of will.

update5

The good thing about this ‘new dumb phone’ is that the devs will only initially have to spend some hours on this project, and that’s it. A phone like this wouldn’t need OTA updates twice a month, just security/bugfixing OTA updates once a year if any. And I don’t think Purism will design the OS from scratch, there are plenty of FOSS projects to base off of.

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Not to mention the fun when some someone on the other side of the counter or desk tells you. “Just get the app!” Then you whip out the the old flip phone (example: a Jitterbug) and say “Really, how do I do that?” (Works better when you’re a senior citizen with wrinkles and grey hair.)

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If the LinusTechTips recent review of the Fairphone 5 (https://yewtu.be/watch?v=e-4RlKcinzc) is a metric to go by, he and a number of commenters appear to be opposed to thicker and heavier phones, expensive prices for the hardware specs one gets, and developing (work-in-progress) software. The price is the biggest barrier, and most people would prefer to trade something that is ethical for something that is substantially cheaper and has more powerful hardware at the same time. People may say, “I care about my privacy but not that much”, and to be fair, 1000$ for a Librem 5 (currently) is a lot of money to put down. The reality of Purism being a small company means they can’t subsidize the cost with volume or other means so the cost has to be passed to the consumer.

Personally, I see Linus as out-of-touch with the average consumer in a number of ways. I have felt that he compares mid-tier products to flagship products unfairly. I won’t rant about my dislike of LTT in general but I can’t deny that they have a powerful voice, even if it’s one I don’t agree with.

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Unfortunately, they still must connect to the internet in order to provide Voice over LTE functionality. VoLTE is required now on U.S. networks, and on many other countries’ networks as well. (Even if the user can’t browse said internet, it’s still there.)

May not be possible to design and produce it so cheaply, but it would be nice, I agree.

Preferably a physical QWERTY (or even QWERTZ, AZERTY, QZERTY, or non-Latin versions), rather than a virtual one. Although a virtual keyboard allows for more international variation.

I definitely find the concept interesting, especially if it produces a small, easy-to-text-with, pocketable device. I would not be thrilled to return to T9 texting.

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I’m genuinely curious, how much could it cost Purism to build a dumb phone which can basically only do SMS & Calls (productivity apps could be later built and delivered over OTA updates).

On ebay I found Nokia 105 4G for $50 Unlocked. So What if we triple that, could Purism sell their ‘Librem 2’ phone for $150 and still make a profit? Nokia is making a profit too out of that $50 right? I get it, Purism “can’t subsidize the cost with volume”, but still, 3x wouldn’t cover that?

The devs only initially would have to spend some hours on this project, and that’s it. A phone like this wouldn’t need OTA updates twice a month, just security/bugfixing OTA updates once a year if any. And I don’t think Purism will design the OS from scratch, there are plenty of FOSS projects to base off of.

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The VoLTE requirements are a big deal; there were a lot of cool devices you could use/tinker with in the past that don’t do anything now due to this.

I switched to a Sonim XP5 myself for a month or so a few years ago just for fun (and also had one of the newer Nokia 3G phones) but now the choices for anything like that are pretty limited.

If Purism did make an option I’d be interested but feel the cost/value proposition may make things difficult; price and delivery would be key (people new to Purism may still find a lot of older articles and content about the delays from the Librem5 and be turned off before even checking out another mobile device offering).

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That is a possibility purism will have to face no matter what, and shouldn’t prevent attempts to move forward.

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The bad press about the refund problems is likely to have a greater impact.

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  1. Acknowledge everything, even those fake excuses
  2. Apologize
  3. Promise to never repeat those mistakes
  4. Start fresh

This may sound painful for Purism to do, but it’s their only way out. I’m sure they’ll have the respect of many people who now hate Purism. Honesty can do miracles.

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Agreed; I didn’t mean for this to be read as a reason not to do a dumb phone device and should have worded that better!

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Yep that too (though I haven’t kept up with those as much personally* I understand it’s pretty relevant to any new device launch)

*edit, context - any of the more recent ones brought up in the past year or two

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Would this cover most of the use cases?

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You can’t target a gen Z teenager with that :smiley: it’s not modern-looking by any means. And they seem to plan on adding multiple features to it, which isn’t really into the ‘detox’ spirit.

Tagging @david.hamner, @francois-techene. What do you guys think of this thread? A stripped-down to literally bare minimum phone could objectively be called “the most private phone available now”. Since it wouldn’t have any cameras, you’d only need a hardswitch for the mic and maybe modem? And you’d also probably win the most smartphone-detox-friendly phone award :slight_smile:

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Can’t Pinephone replace a dumbphone? You turn off all kill switches and add the hardware keyboard. It’s about $200 together. You “only” need a good OS which hides the browser and other “smart” things and provides a simple interface. SXMo comes to mind, although it could be further simplified.

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Extra sensors, extra hardware = extra attack vectors.
Plus you wouldn’t get 2 weeks of battery time, with an average of 15h talk time.

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In this case you’re wrong here anyway. That means it needs an own operating system that is specially designed for saving power as much as possible. If we just take an existing system, we have same issues again with battery. How to compete with Nokia that improved the system for years?

Also Purism attacked a huge market with Librem 5, but I don’t even think we hit 10k devices yet. How should it work with a device that attacks a little side market? Sure it’s growing, but Linux phones is also a growing market.

I think splitting up investments slow down more important processes. Also don’t think that this device wouldn’t need any updates. It will take years until it’s stable and it will need security updates aswell. Librem 11 is less work since it’s something close to Librem 14 and Librem 5.

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Yes. Such FOSS OSes already exist, we could just fork them.

How to compete with Nokia that improved the system for years?

Nokia phones aren’t really dumb, they have lots of features & apps which makes testing expensive. In Purism’s case this won’t be a burden because just to release the phone all they need is calls, sms and a few system apps like Settings. Later updates could add a few other utility software like Calculator, Calendar, etc. So again, not a lot of dev work will be required for such a barebone device.

I think splitting up investments slow down more important processes.

They could start a new crowdfunding just for this phone.

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I’m still thinking you underestimate this (think about firmware and drivers - Librem 5 is still not stable with everything). But let’s say it is as you mention …

I guess Purism wont do it again. The catastrophe of L5 crowdfund was kinda a lesson and I remember that Purism wrote somewhere they never do this again.

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I guess Purism wont do it again. The catastrophe of L5 crowdfund was kinda a lesson and I remember that Purism wrote somewhere they never do this again.

It’s not that they won’t do it, it’s that they can’t because of the financial investment they made into the Librem 5 development. See Nicole Faerber’s post: https://forums.puri.sm/t/the-librem-micro-a-sbc-whod-be-interested/11109/28

Our focus right now still is getting the L5 fully in shape, we are pretty happy with Evergreen but this story does not end there either and frankly we now urgently need to make some money with them. This over three year development did cost us alot* and we somehow need to get back this investment.

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No, I was speaking about something newer - last year. I just forgot where I read it.

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