What of the 180 day lead-time?

So people take “sheer glee” in posting?

What are you a mindreader? Why don’t you keep these conjectures to yourself? Or produce something to back this slur up?


And every single open hardware project forum ever.


Do you guys know that during ww2 that France was basically open for business (internally) duing the Nazi occupation? Hitler occupied France and didn’t frickin shut the whole country down, our geniuses shut down the entire western economy of something slightly more dangerous than a flu.

I’m french and I suggest you be careful with the under-educated bullshit flow you’re spitting.


So what? I’m Croatian. What’s your point?

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Haha! It’s so true!


My point is what you say is non sense from start to finish. I gave up on people like you and I don’t care. But please don’t talk about what was life under occupation in France to help advance your non-sense.

I accept your rebuke and your perspective. Feel free critique as much as you like, I will not take any offense. I posted knowing some of what I posted is inflammatory.

My apologies if offended i you, it was not meant to do so. My sincere apologies.

Not quite sure what the reddit link is meant illustrate?

The fact that you are, by your admission, expecting people to take exception to your “inflammatory” post makes you a troll in my opinion. Obviously one prepared to sink pretty low.

Such a relief that you won’t take offense to critiquing of your post. So much one could say to this. Do you think you’re contributing positively to the discourse? Yeh, its going down a treat.

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Fair enough. Up to you.

Why announce 180 days of lead time for the new order when we know that order parity will probably not be reached before early 2022?

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Why not, it’s a goal.

Because if the 180 days is not met then there will be knockers and doubters complaining and bad-mouthing in this forum and elsewhere. There is risk in giving a lead time figure and there is risk in not giving a lead time figure. It’s probably no-win for Purism.

Anyone who claims to know when tech procurement is going to get back to normal is kidding themselves.

I’ve ordered tech equipment on dozens of occasions from many, many different manufacturers (so I’m not talking about Purism) over the last 18 months and I tell you it’s crazy out there. It comes when it comes.


The complainers will always be complaining, and one doing a project needs a goal even if it is difficult to predict. The goal gives one something to shoot for, a schedule (even if it slips for unforseen or unpredictable reasons, then make another schedule which allows for the rescheduling of more predictable lines in the supply chain).

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In contrary, this, from November 2020, is what defines so called “siege mentality” (within this Forum): “challenge was how to operate, manage and commercialize several hundreds of thousands of devices, growing to millions in the near future. As volumes of IoT data grow, this can introduce new challenges into communications networks; and if devices aren’t controlled and managed effectively in real time, any IoT service is compromised and potentially mobile network as well. Security, resilience, interoperability and availability were therefore critical.

Note, perhaps out of the subject post, but still within context of this thread (I think). And, change to such siege mentality might be hopeless with this particular kind of “democratized” type “for” the well-being of your people (sorry, my lāpsus linguae) customer, even if:

Change following to: Bürger, rather citizen, please:

903 day lead time for me so far… I am not holding my breath for the 180 day story. As you can imagine, I am growing weary of this and there are a lot of people who are even more weary than me! What is the net result? Well I can’t splash out on a librem 14 when the librem 5 has not been delivered on. That would make me an idiot. But I hang around in hope. Come on Purism! Deliver on your promises.


My judgment (vote): Yes (when attitude of positive …).

IMHO (vote): No. @StevenR, please be patient, take Librem 5 of yours as reward, when time comes. Where reward means: take it (receive it) not just as a very well finalized product (even if 100% of manufacturer’s promises not achieved by the time of your getting it expectations or in some other, like technical or software, terms) by continuing, as up to now and until now, to support this particular project. Please take this recommendation of mine as my friendly advice to you, nothing else, nothing less.

P.S. Please just forget that there was delivery promise for April 2019, just forget everything and look forward of getting your Evergreen soon (soon not sooner). And, for example, you don’t even need to keep, as delivered, PureOS on it, but some of us are still in need to get Librem 5 (or optionally aren’t, just a matter of good or “better” users taste/choice).

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Purism missed every goal ever no matter if there was a crisis of not! That is not good, of course, but it’s not that tragic after all. The very bad part is that they have used and are still using a lot of misleadings to cover their incompetence. And they refuse to give our money back breaking the agreement and even the laws. And we are stuck here. Never ever buy something from Purism again!

It feels like they really want to upset as many people as possible.

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It’s not a goal, it’s a promise that we already know is impossible to keep.
It will take more than 180 days from today for people who pre-ordered their L5s more than 2 years ago to receive it, if all goes well.
So it’s certain that people who order today should not expect a lead time of 180 days!


It’s an estimate, not a promise.

In the latest missive from Purism, in which the figure appears, the figure is shown completely without context. It doesn’t explicitly say it’s an estimate or a promise or a goal or a target or a guideline or anything else.

Again, anyone who claims to know when tech procurement is going to get back to normal is kidding themselves.

From putisms point of view these aren’t promises. I contend that even if they’re not promises they are setting expectations then not meeting the expectations they set.

This I’m going to say purism did a half decent job on as I don’t know how to better word what they said. I read it as 180 days to resume shipping from where they left off in the queue NOT as 180 days to ship new purchases.

Maybe there’s a more clear way, but I don’t know what that is.

That’s contributing to their optics problem. By not being precise they are leaving the door open for further projection onto them by others which historically they have replied with things along the lines of (not exact quotes but my interpretations of the gist of their replies) “that’s not what we meant”/“you’re reading it wrong”/“these aren’t promises”/“maybe we should stop sharing so much information because you can’t seem to handle it”. The commonality to me very much comes across as blaming the victim instead of self reflecting (and yes I see the consumer as the victim in this context).

While there has been whining and venting, there has also been constructive feedback from the community. Unfortunately that feedback is not often well received and instead of self reflection is met with hostility.

It does set a certain expectation, and estimate methods have varying degrees if accuracy and/or precision. From my personal experience whatever method Purism is using is by far the worst of any entity (business, individual, group, or otherwise) I’ve ever dealt with. Purism also does withold/obfuscate information to prevent others from being able to estimate for themselves based on actual data. This combination has led to a state where purisms estimates are not trusted and there is no reasonable alternative.

I think part of this may stem from the world of SLA’s where IT professionals for so long hid behind agreements to say "I met the letter of the agreement so you should be happy. With businesses I’ve dealt with, the ones that don’t have SLA’s but rather operate on the rule of “Set and meet expectations” they have much happier customers (whether those are internal or external customers). It is my perspective that Purism treats much of these interactions similar to the SLA by their responses of “we didn’t promise that” where instead I think they are setting expectations and instead of proactively resetting expectations waiting until those expectations are not met to set new expectations and cycling that way.

These are just some observations from my own lens.