Estimate your Librem 5 refund 💸

[david.boddie]

@Quarnero

Which means (to me) that you could have sold it (six months ago) here to some Forum member or even through some other public network.

That doesn’t necessarily follow. Could be shipped does not mean it would be shipped – it may only have been a shipping estimate.

Also, customers shouldn’t have to fall back on the market for used goods to get something approximating a refund.

[Quarnero]

@david.boddie

Also, customers shouldn’t have to fall back on the market for used goods to get something approximating a refund.

I do agree with this judgement of yours indeed. Although I wasn’t actually suggesting selling away received Librem 5 either. Thanks anyway for correcting me, it was clear and purposely needed reaction from your side!

[david.boddie]

Were you thinking about transferring the order to another potential customer? That’s also something I wish people weren’t obliged to do. It’s like trying to find someone to pay to take your place in a queue.

Anything between the company and the customer that requires the customer to involve a third party leaves a bitter taste, in my view.

[Quarnero]

@david.boddie

Were you thinking about transferring the order to another potential customer?

Yes. And as second, I’m not saying that some Purism employee should be involved there as much (like we were asked at previous point of time on which Librem 5 Batch do we want to get delivered), doing just the final step where seller (perhaps @jox might reconsider such option) of his place within waiting queue sends out message to Purism requesting to transfer his pre-order to someone else (that is final and only official part of such conversation between two people). All I recommended in my above post is that we are having instrument of private message within this Forum where seller of some pre-order (should make new thread by her/himself offers certain place in queue to be sold). Few months ago I already bought one place in queue or rather pre-order this way from someone living within Europe. It was an easy conversation, SEPA money sent out from another EU country and transfer of #Purism_XYYXXXXXXX confirmed from Purism support@ side. As described here:

@ers

I already contacted the purism support and they confirmed that we can transfer the order to another buyer:

And here:

@Torrone

If it would help someone to get a Librem 5 sooner, so much the better.

Or here:

@Gagnarf

I would like to sell it at the same price I bought it because it would be brand new when you will receive it, so I propose to sell it at 600$ or 550€. I live in Europe, so you might expect some charge if you don’t use euro.

where @Gagnarf final reply to me over private message was:

I’ve received your payment, I’m going to send a mail to purism

[edit] : The transfer has been done, and I don’t see it anymore on my account, so you should see your order on your account now.

[OpojOJirYAlG]

@david.boddie

That doesn’t necessarily follow. Could be shipped does not mean it would be shipped – it may only have been a shipping estimate.

I counter that at this point we’re seeing reports of devices ordered in 2018 being delivered, as such an order from 2017 would very much qualify as having already met their spot in the queue and should have either been shipped or had their refund processed. This is of course taking all claims at face value as there is no meaningful method to validate them from the outside.

Purism has already unilaterally and retroactively changed the agreement from refunds being provided upon request to requiring the customer to wait until their order is available to ship, to delay further does raise further ethical questions in my mind.

How does one estimate when they’ll get a refund if they aren’t being issued when the device would have been shipped as the latest agreement says they would…

While I agree the customer should not have to involve a third party and sell their device themselves or sell their place in the queue it does get them money the fastest, unfortunately it also incentivises Purism to delay as much as possible as then they don’t have to try and sell the device since the people canceling are doing that sales part for them.

[Quarnero]

@OpojOJirYAlG

does raise further ethical questions in my mind.

Which ones? I already wrote on how we can leave out and that we can leave out Purism of this game (money from 2017 wasn’t deposited on some Bank account, it was invested into this project, probably even into the NXP® working places in Austin, TX, somewhere where it was used well, as needed in particular building blocks phase) and offer to someone else particular Librem 5 spot in the queue or even give it away as present to someone that we care about or even to someone else that cares about getting and using Librem 5 ASAP. Please refer to this:

@Quarnero

might reconsider such option

and this well thought out criterion:

@Torrone

If it would help someone to get a Librem 5 sooner, so much the better.

[OpojOJirYAlG]

@Quarnero

and this well thought out criterion:

@Torrone

If it would help someone to get a Librem 5 sooner, so much the better.

Providing the refund gets everyone else in the queue their Librem 5 sooner by moving the whole queue up one instead of letting one person cut in line.

[Quarnero]

@OpojOJirYAlG

Providing the refund

Yes it does look like that their Librem 5 will be delivered sooner. But with having those requesting their pre-order money back you’ll get your Librem 5 indeed sooner? I doubt that while money that might be additionally invested into the production of one extra Librem 5 will be gone (if and when refunded), money is lost at the moment when refund provided.

And please note that this post of mine is dialog between us that are interested in Purism success and/or getting Librem 5 into their hands to be used as intended for (to communicate) and not for those that want to prove something that they didn’t pay for in advance.

[chrizz]

Ordered: 2017-10-14
Asked for refund: 2021-10-18
Refunded: -
Money received: -

EU customer (Germany)
Promised refunding in “late September”

[Quarnero]

@chrizz, in the meantime this (as explained within related post) might help you to get your money back earlier (just make a new thread here within this Forum, explaining what you want to sell, if decided to follow what I’m proposing that you might do here):

@Quarnero

reconsider such option

[deepattention]

Ordered: 2018-09-08
Asked for refund: 2020-04-16, 2022-09-06 (after receiving the shipping email)
Refunded: -
Money received: -
EU customer

Received this status update from them

At this moment the refund processes are slower. As such your refund is
scheduled to be processed in Q1 2023.

[Pakamper]

They said they would ship all back ordered phones by the new year. So I’m thinking you should get a refund before then.

[OpojOJirYAlG]

They also said refunds would be issued when they reached your spot in the queue, and that’s without digging into the many other missed self set dates. I would set expectations for q2 2023 at the earliest using past experience to inform future expectations, especially when accounting for the already pushed return time frame from on your spot in the queue to the quarter after your spot in the queue.

[wszychta]

I have created forum account for writing in this topic.
So my order has status on website:

Order Number: # Purism_2866761368
Order Date: December 24, 2018
Order Status: Pending refund

Of course I have received answer that I will get refund when there will be my place in queue.

Last time when I asked for refund (04 October 2022) I received answer:

Hello,
Yes we should reach your place in the shipping queue before the end of this year.
Kind regards,

[deepattention]

Update: Still did not receive any refund

[joshua]

I ordered in April of 2018. I ended up in the Evergreen batch. I first requested a refund in Sept 2021, almost 3½ years later. I was told I could have a refund when my phone was ready to ship.
In May 2022, I was finally informed that my device was ready to ship. I requested a refund. I was told that my refund ticket would take “several weeks to process”. In June I asked what the status was, and they informed me that my refund was “scheduled to be processed in Q4 2022”. At the end of December 2022 I emailed again and was informed that my case “is still in the refund processing queue. There is no precise ETA at the moment”.

[chrizz]

@chrizz

Ordered: 2017-10-14
Asked for refund: 2021-10-18

Still order status “await shipment”. Several mails to them answered by alternating “cannot help” and “see what we can do”.
Candid Camera?

[Karl]

Order Date 2017-10-7
Refunded Requests: 2020-10-27
Order Status: Pending refund

EU customer (Germany)

In 2020-10-27:
“We can refund your order, but not immediately. It will take some months”

After asking about it in 2022-7-6:
'The refund was not yet processed. It should be processed in late Q4 2022."

Refunded: -
Money received: -

[joshua]

I got a full refund today.
The full timeline for whoever is keeping track of these things:
April 2018 ordered
Sept 2021 requested refund
May 2022 got “device ready to ship” email. Asked again for refund
December? 2022 filed a complaint with AG
April 5 2023 received a refund

omitted: dates of various conversations with Purism support

[nexusxv]

June 3, 2019 - Ordered Phone
March 01, 2023 - Scheduled for shipping at March 08, 2023. Asked For a refund

Still no refund or timeframe when I get it. Support ignoring the requests to give time frame for more then a month