Preorder of what hardware?
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This is not truly a case of “I never received a refund for my 2019 pre-order” since you did receive the device but, yes; you do have an outstanding refund. I see from the support ticket that you:
- ordered the L5 in 2019-01
- received the L5 2023-03-27
- returned the L5 approx 2023-04-23 citing performance concerns vs device cost
- are entitled to a full refund minus a 10% restocking fee as per Purism’s RMA policy (device received in good condition with no noticeable defects)
As I informed flman86 above, I can work with support and finance to ensure you receive a refund, but do not have the resources at my disposal at this time to guarantee a disbursement date. I understand that this answer is not very reassuring, but do know that we see you, truly understand your frustration, and are working to settle refund resolutions as quickly as we can.
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Yes, you are correct; I did receive the phone and returned it after concluding it wasn’t the value proposition I was expecting.
Also, thank you so much for this response. I had been sending emails asking for updates but was not getting any responses, so just having someone acknowledge me feels good.
I understand you cannot guarantee a disbursement date but consider this progress in the right direction. What would you recommend my course of action be now? I’ll obviously check in on this thread periodically, but beyond that, what are your suggestions?
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Try to sell the device on the open market?
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Sure, it takes about 10 months to sell with the Asia modem, based on this recently closed thread:
Just remember to follow the marketplace best practices:
Best for @zenodrake to mention whether it’s the North America, Europe or Asia modem. The first two are probably going to shift more quickly (based on anecdotal observation of this forum, not that this forum is the only way of selling a Librem 5).
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My answer is likely not satisfactory and is never the one I want to give, but I’d recommend you give it some time. I cannot go into detail as it involves company financials, but there are several core infrastructure debts which are nearly paid off, which will alleviate a significant amount of weekly overhead costs, allowing Purism more financial bandwidth to provide timely refund requests and order fulfillment.
I know it’s neither your fault nor your responsibility to be so patient regarding your refund, but this is the state of affairs. We’re implementing numerous policies and improvements to ensure that this difficult situation does not repeat in the future.
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You took my money for a phone.
You never delivered a product.
You refuse to refund.
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Hi Purism,
I bought like $5000 of Purism products last year that were delivered in working order. Ordered >$2000 of undelivered products in 2024 that are still being processed. Please use some of this $7000 to get this person a refund, or else ban them from forum if they are not real customer.
Ok thanks, bye.
Sent from my Liberty Phone
[Edit: This post moved around the forum a bit and was originally the first reply to some complaint thread by some other user. I think I meant it more as a rhetorical to try to resolve the situation than something that needs to be directed at any one individual’s post, so it probably still makes sense in the context of where it was moved to, but I added this note in case the above does not make sense directly.]
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Purism unilaterally and retroactively backed out of their promises of refunds more than five years ago (not good). So Purism hasn’t been making five years of promises. They broke their promise to you five years or so ago. Now, apparently, they’re stringing you along, waiting for you to cave on your expectation of getting a refund and accept their products instead of giving you the refund that they have told you that they do not intend to give to you, starting when they told you that five years ago.
It’s probably time for you to quit wining. You’ve been lied to, screwed over, cheated, whatever you choose to call it. You could just accept the product and upload a video here of you smashing it to pieces after it arrives, if that makes you feel better. But in any event, it’s time to quit wining about this, mostly because it doesn’t do any good for anyone.
Personally, when I show my Librem 5 to friends and family, I warn them that Purism does not ever issue cash refunds. So they should be sure of what they want before they place their order.
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Why is the OP hidden?
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The original post contained two screenshots concerning details about their communications with Purism support and Librem 5 pre-order. One of the screenshots was an email from a few days ago of Purism support offering to ship the Librem 5 within several business days, or to receive store credit equivalent to the amount paid during the pre-order, plus 20% gratitude. The other screenshot was the customer replying to their auto-generated Librem 5 pre-order email on May 6th, 2020 to cancel their Librem 5 pre-order.
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I respectfully disagree. If an organization keeps doing the wrong thing, then imposing social pressure is one of the healthier, constructive methods to make the people behind that org reconsider their behavior, I think.
Calling out shitty or borderline fraudulent behavior of an institution shouldn’t be frowned upon or discouraged, provided that it stays within the rules and netiquette of this forum and doesn’t compromise anyone’s safety.
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It is clear that interactions with Purism is patchy. I feel blessed. I ordered an L5 in 2018, hung on for years but needed a new phone. So they credited my initial outlay of I think $699 plus $200 and I bought a fully decked out L14 which has been brilliant, delivered promptly. Recently I then took advantage of the $599 L5 offer. Got it promptly and I love it.
I really feel for people battling this company. It puzzles me that some still wait for delivery of products that I ordered way after them and received quickly.
I’ve followed things on this forum for years and the inconsistencies do leave me wondering but feeling, lucky maybe, that my interactions have been better. I’m just about to buy a L11 so I hope my luck holds.
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I feel similarly, but perhaps the quintessential difference is if the customer orders a Purism product then requests a refund. Was your and my experience better because we only treated Purism like a hardware sales company and not a bank?
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I was waiting a while for my L5 but when i sent Mladen a recording of my beginner (2 week’s into it) 5string banjo playing of ‘You are my Sunshine’ it materialised extremely rapidly after that.
If Billy has 1 banjo and gets 2 more banjo’s what does Billy have? Happiness, Billy has happiness!! Its Friday night, please excuse me.
But since i received my L5 my playing has improved dramatically, thank you Purism for helping me be a better banjo player.
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Bank? What are you talking about? Who orders a phone from a bank? I can’t fathom where you came up with the notion that people asking for their promised refunds are treating Purism “like … a bank”.
Hardware sales companies still need to honor their sales agreements. I expect any company I order from to deal with me honestly and openly and honor their own policies.
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This was in regards to an old order and a promise broken. Specifically:
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We don’t know exactly when the OP ordered their Librem 5, but they got the “which batch + estimated shipping March 31, 2020” e-mail November 14, 2019 … so their order was before that.
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They asked for a refund May 6, 2020 when Purism pushed back delivery again.
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They had more interaction “Yesterday” with Purism … who reiterated what they could do, but that didn’t include a refund.
I disagree. You have learned about Purism’s behavior, but there are others who haven’t. I will keep letting people know (here, on reddit, elsewhere …) what to expect in regard to Purism until it becomes unprofitable for Purism to proceed in what I consider to be an unethical manner (e.g. retroactively changing their return policies, violations of the FTC Mail Order Rule [offer of an immediate refund if shipping is delayed significantly], etc.). I realize they may never change and they might even be profitable, but I see no reason why their behavior should not be brought to people’s attention.
Agreed.
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For those who care about integrity, integrity matters. Everything in life is not always so clear until one takes a clear and more sober look at it.
Purism is not out robbing banks. They found a way to get money from people without leaving the person with much enforcable recourse when Purism doesn’t keep to the terms of their own agreement. Civil agreements for reletively small amounts of money can be difficult to enforce legally, despite a multitude of consumer protection laws. So were crimes committed? I am not even saying here that any crimes were committed. Were people taken unfair advantage of here? Yeah, they were. Does everyone who finds ways to take unfair advantage of others get arrested and go to jail? Obviously not. When one promotes a noble social purpose and then performs a blatent slight-of-hand (metaphorically) in their business dealings with you, it tends to atteact a lot of attention and harm their reputation and that of their social purpose.
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