In theory his point makes sense and is logical.
You will probably have to agree to disagree with @Privacy2 on that. It’s the same when anyone is flogging a dead horse years after the event. It can be tedious for those who have to listen - in can be injurious to the person so flogging - but there is no right or wrong answer about getting over it.
I don’t agree. How are people treating Purism as a bank? I just don’t see it.
People are treating Purism as an online hardware company that should adhere to their own policies and sales agreements as well as any regulatory policies (e.g. the FTC Mail Order Rule).
I should note that most online sales companies (e.g. Amazon, Costco, Walmart, …) don’t even charge the credit card until it is in the shipping phase (boxed and ready to mail/ship). Crowdfunding wouldn’t work with such a model, however on non-crowdfunded items (e.g. the Librem 14), there shouldn’t be questions of immediate refunds if it doesn’t ship in a timely manner. At minimum Purism should follow the FTC Mail Order Rule. When a consumer is making a product choice, the delivery time is important.
Please provide the source.
I think it was in this thread ( Public Offering to Become a Shareholder in Purism ). I believe it was deleted. It’s possible it was in one of the “Refund Request” thread.
Please provide the source then.
The number 600 was mentioned here - Louiss Rossman on Purism - #21 by Poseidon
It came from Louiss Rossman (I don’t know anything about him, first time I heard of him was that thread).
Post is from August last year.
Noting that there is a dedicated topic for refund, um, discussion regarding Librem 14 and a dedicated topic for refund discussion regarding Librem 5 - and this is the latter.
OK, so a somewhat dubious mechanism and route. That doesn’t mean it’s false but it certainly isn’t supported as true by any source that is in a position to know, as far as I am aware.
As @leetaur pointed out (thanks!), it was not JCS, it was this comment Louiss Rossman on Purism - #21 by Poseidon which referred to Louis Rossman’s video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IjUryQOlgk ) where an unofficial Purism “spokesperson” (listen to the video to understand) claiming insider knowledge wrote this in an e-mail to Louis. As read by Louis, it is between 16:54 and 17:05 in the video.
I don’t see where you defended your comment:
And I asked: I don’t agree. How are people treating Purism as a bank? I just don’t see it.
People are treating Purism as an online hardware company that should adhere to their own policies and sales agreements as well as any regulatory policies (e.g. the FTC Mail Order Rule).
You might notice that I asked in the StartEngine thread about how many non-refunded items there were —> it is something that I think should have been disclosed since it should have been relevant to anybody purchasing equity. It was probably mingled in the accounting numbers (as short term debt), but it would be impossible to tease out the exact value from that.
It might be worth you revisiting Louis’ video and to remember, IIRC, that JCS doesn’t work for Purism officially
either. It’s also worth remembering the following statement — clearly some people know the state/number of unprocessed refunds:
I was agreeing to disagree. You might want to argue ad infinitum. I don’t and maybe Dlonk doesn’t either.
Obviously I don’t know but the accountants may have worked out what is consistent with generally accepted accounting principles. Clearly it is some kind of liability whether it’s the inventory that they are holding that is really owned by those who ordered it and paid for it, or the store credit that should be on the books, or the refunds that could get paid.
OK. You seemed to think that “the point made sense and was logical,” but didn’t ever say why. That’s fine, but it’s not an argument/point, … it’s a “vote without discussion”.
Just for the record, I do now work for Purism as a W2 employee.
Also, for the record, I had been informed who submitted the lengthy letter to Rossmann ultimately requesting that the video be removed, and they were not in a position to be labeled as an official public relations correspondent for Purism. I do not have any other information or insider context regarding that situation.
So you source is a 11 months old 11 sec snip from a dramatic youtuber who reads out a unofficial letter from a rogue Purism employee citing unofficial, rough numbers.
In other words: You are spreading inaccurate hear-say. It’s surprising you do this today because you previously refused to use Purism 2023 financial numbers because you had to read a chart.
Why?
Things get even worse because you know in the past 11 months that:
So an undisclosed amount have to be deducted from your inaccurate hear-say.
That’s nice to know. Congratulations!
Well, the clip is more like 20 minutes. For your convenience I provided the timestamp for the specific quote. [Edit: I added a few other snippets below. However, I recommend listening/watching the whole video.]
Before the clip, my memory was: “JCS or somebody with Purism knowledge” (and, later corrected to: “an unofficial Purism spokesperson (listen to the video)”.
So, in the interest of transparency, I guess the question to @JCS is whether JCS believes that the person who submitted the letter to Rossman was “somebody with Purism knowledge” in regard to the assertion that there approximately 600 refunds at the time. It seems like important information.
[
Edit: Other snippets from the source which, taken at face value, would indicate information.
3:23 impact purism’s future as I speak with
3:26 Todd directly therefore I would like you
3:28 to thoroughly consider my request I am
3:30 asking to have a 20 to 30 minute phone
3:31 call with you over the weekend or on
3:33 Monday to confidentially share uh what I
3:36 know on top of what you’ve mentioned
and, while vague, they essentially claim to be an employee of some sort:
5:31 when Kyle left Purism in May
5:33 Todd asked me to take over the customer
5:35 service all I write below is true and
5:37 accurate to my knowledge and I would
5:38 like you to truly try to understand me I
5:40 got curious and wanted to investigate a
5:42 paradox I’ve noticed on one hand it has
]
I think JCS has already said what he is going to say:::
I do not have any other information or insider context regarding that situation.
I believe that the whole situation would predate JCS, so his information would be second-hand.
I don’t think there’s any such thing as an “unofficial spokesperson”. If you are a spokesperson then you officially speak on behalf of an entity.
Does the video actually name the alleged source?
The OP doesn’t know he’s hidden.
Also the OP placed his order somewhere in june or july of 2019 if the OP’s mind serves him correctly. The OP doesn’t understand the renewed interest in his post from September 2023, but has now selected an official answer to his initial question.
The reason is that there is a limit of 1 Librem 5 refund topic and that one and only topic is this topic. Another topic sprung up and all the posts in that new topic were merged into this topic. So expect more “renewed interest” in the future. If that is bugging you, it may help for you to mute the topic.
It would seem that the damage from the Rossman video (Purism ghosts Librem 5 customer, lies about refund policy - avoid this horrible company) still extends to this day. This is a snippet from the Think Penguin Matrix chat room (Room: https://matrix.to/#/#penguin-chat:matrix.lrn.fm). I’m not aware of Purism making any claims about getting source code from Nvidia or Intel.
Direct link to messages (messages copied below): https://matrix.to/#/!IjaXDZcUJdKgWHLukk:matrix.lrn.fm/$efbDOSryVFN31WZFJlhP-D4GNXuYg9VtNRb3OAElYK8?via=matrix.lrn.fm&via=matrix.org&via=meowchat.xyz
tom @06:22
mr.penguin: Hi. Thank you very much for the detailed answer. Your answers are very informative.
As for Libreboot, I agree with you, but now there is GnuBoot and as far as I know Jason (Trisquel) uses ASUS D-16. One of my friends tried to build it and had a lot of difficulties and eventually installed Coreboot on D-16.
I asked because I’m planning to replace my desktop PC and looking for options, what I found today, below are examples, write your opinion:
- Assemble it yourself using ASUS D-16 (GnuBoot)
- Libreboot 9020 MT with Intel i7-4790k (Libreboot)
- Librem Mini (PureBoot)
- NitroPC Pro 2 or NitroPC 1 (like Librem Mini) | Coreboot
- https://shop.3mdeb.com/shop/dasharo-supported-hardware/msi-pro-z790-p-wifi-ddr5-motherboard-with-dasharo-entry-subscription/ (Coreboot)
- I looked at Librem Mini and NitroPC 1 with the same motherboard, for example NVISEN MU02 has the same one, you can install Coreboot on it instead of BIOS.NVISEN MU02 Mini PC Intel i7-1065G7 Quad Core 1.3GHz to 3.9GHz 16GB 5 – Minixpc Perhaps there are other options…
mr.penguin @12:40
The (3) item in your list I would recommend avoiding. Not talking about what it might be based around so much as Purism. I would recommend avoiding anything from Purism more generally. The guy behind it is very sketchy, lies, manipulates, and is bordering if not committing actual fraud. There has been a bit of mainstream reporting, but even that is only the tip of the iceberg. Here is just one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKegmu0V75s but the guys made absurd claims from being able to get source code from NVIDIA and Intel to being the “freest” computers when in fact it was the farthest thing from the truth. I mean, it’s not the first time I’ve seen companies take credit for or re-brand software etc but this was the sort of thing where he was crossing over that line or at least getting so close to it that it was absolutely disgusting.
Hello, I ordered a Librem5 on 2 June 2019. After there was a possibility of delivery (probably sometime in 2022), I decided against it and requested a refund. About a year ago I was already in contact with the support regarding the refund. But after 2 or 3 emails, I received no more replies. I have now tried again and have not received a reply from support for more than a week. Is it really possible that the support no longer gets in touch and ghosted me? I would be happy to get my money back after more than 5 years. Is that normal?
