That sounds to me like a Purism planning, marketing, and expectation setting problem, not a customer problem.
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Yes. I can give you the wayback machine references. November 9th 2017 it still had
it as a Campaign and asking to âjoin the campaignâ, but by November 18th it switched
to âpre-order nowâ (see this page https://web.archive.org/web/20171118075457/https://puri.sm/products/ ) and if you click on that it brought you to this page https://web.archive.org/web/20171118081346/https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ along with this note:
Note: This was an âall-or-nothingâ campaign, but we crossed well over the $1.5m goal, and will be delivering on the Librem 5 phone. If you would like a Librem 5 you can simply pre-order one of the appropriate rewards now , and we will add you to the shipping queue!
While there were still references to the campaign in the sidebar, the fact that the âorder buttonâ
switched from âJoin the Campaignâ to âPre-Orderâ and the above text seems clear. The web
pages werenât scrubbed of references to the campaign until Sep/Oct 2018.
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Itâs important to understand that user facing developers and support members donât make financial decisions. When the financial department decided to held back refunds temporarily despite plenty of liquidity it points to another problem. My guess is the accounting principles dictates the missing batch(es) from the the Chinese suppliers is booked at 0 $. Finding alternative suppliers is probably also impossible until the US production is scaled to new levels.
This can only change when the suppliers deliver enough volume, the goods are confirmed to work and a inventory count confirms it is bookable at value. Thereâs nothing much Purism can do to make this go faster.
The recent uptick in phone shipments points to a new batch was received by Purism. That leaves only one missing batch.
Agreed. And I understand this. However, if they defend such behavior, they are taking a stance.
On the above quote, the emphasis is mine. In that regard:
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From my understanding this is ongoing and, so, should not be classed as âtemporaryâ.
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What evidence do you have that there is âplenty of liquidityâ.
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I ordered my Librem 5 phone on January 30, 2019 and cancelled the order in September 2020. I was told that once they get to my turn in the queue, I would get a refund. I patiently waited. Now my turn has passed and I still havenât gotten reimbursed. So there I am again writing emails and asking them to finally refund me. Has this happened to anyone else?
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Nope, nobody has ever experienced this (Just kidding). 
You are not alone, but my advise is:
Contact Purism and ask them about the status of your refund.
Maybe the president (@Kyle_Rankin) could finally comment on whatâs up here with Purism. Just in case youâre not aware of it, there are federal laws in place which make this behavior clearly illegal. Every time you had to delay the shipping of a phone (pre-order or regular order) youâre obligated to inform the costumer of the delay and grant them the option for a prompt refund. If they opt for a refund, you then have 7 working days to process the refund. Source
So not only is your policy to only grant refunds when the phones reach their place in the shipping queue illegal, but delaying refunds even further makes this highly unethical because you canât even be trusted with your own words and policies.
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Thanks! I shouldâve mentioned that I am based in Europe. I did file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
Isnât about getting shipment confirmation electronic-mail at first place?
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Then we are all in luck. Because no one is doing that.
I might be reading it wrong, but I think there was an attempt to conflate âcrowdfundingâ and âpre-orderâ. Orders after mid-November 2017 are pre-orders and have different expectations in regard to refunds (e.g. FTC Mail Order Rule) than any funding that was part of the crowdfunding campaign.
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I read it different. You probably shouldnât repeat that narrative. Remember the forum rules.
AVOID : personal topics or rants (like non productive, unfounded complaints), controversial topics (religion, sports, nationalism or politics), ineffective discussion ([ bikeshedding)
Just because you read it different doesnât mean privacy2 is wrong⌠and what better way to clarify understanding than to say it in your own words? Privacy2 admits there may be a misunderstanding, then articulates their perception. Saying your perception is different in no way invalidates theirs.
From my perspective I donât know if it was intentional to conflate the two, but it does appear they were being conflatedâŚ
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Right. It is impossible to prove right and wrong on who is taking a stance. Thatâs why the wise moderation rules ask you not go down that path.
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Which is why I gave links that show precisely when Purism went from a âcrowdfunding campaignâ to âpre-orderâ and quoted Purism on that. That should hopefully prevent people from any confusion
on when that happened.
Specifically: The Librem 5 stopped being a âcrowdfunderâ on/before Nov 18th 2017 and those phones have been, AFAICT, delivered. Thus any discussions presuming that those seeking refunds at this point in time are âcrowdfundersâ is not, IMO, correct.
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And thatâs irrelevant to any user facing developer who has to deal with real world problems and setbacks. This was already explained this to you and you keep ignoring it.
So here is their reply after I inquired into why they skipped my place in the queue for getting refunded (order from 30.01.2019):
"We have reached your place in the order queue and we have added your refund to be processed.
But the refund process is slow at this moment."
Thatâs not very helpful, is it.
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As I explained to you, it is not irrelevant.
That âuser facing developerâ took a stance about refunds by saying things like âJust wanted to point out that if you request a refund for a device where what you paid for was its production and development (as it was crowdfunded) âŚâ. That stance, IMO, hinges on whether or not the refund
was from someone participating in the crowdfunding. I believe it is vital that we all understand that
everyone participating in the crowdfunding campaign has received their device (or refund) and that the people complaining are people who pre-ordered their device.
At this point, youâre distracting from the topic. Please create a new thread if you wish to reply further.
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No. My phone is great. I got it about 3 or 4 years ago. I bought it new for $150. When I go hiking and turn off bluetooth, wifi, cellular modem and just use the GPS, I get about 5 days of battery life (mostly just bringing up topo maps and taking pictures). I have no issues with VoLTE, GPS, bluetooth, ⌠or really anything.
Of course youâre probably asking about Librem 5âs. I never ordered one. I started seeing red flags around June 2018 and it was clear that they would not meet any of a sequence of delivery estimates. IMO the marketing/messaging/PR got to be more and more deceptive and I began to warn people about those red flags.
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