It’s likely not in their best interest to comment on this and to instead work through whatever they’re working through to get to a better place then in the future just ignore when people point to the dark spot in their past. It’s a tried and true tactic for many businesses and while I strongly disagree with it ethically and morally, pragmatically I can at least comprehend it.
There is no intent to open up the Financials in the way you suggest.
It’s also no better for them to prove what their financial situation is right now because regardless of the situation it would be a net negative conversation. The reality is that until they are caught up on both shipments and refunds their likely least bad path is to just not get involved with the conversation and then to eventually solve things and then launch something new a little later to have that cycle of posts bury the past…
Not saying it’s right, just saying it’s how business works.
This is not fair OpojOJirYAlG, you know that this small Start-Up has to finance the parts before assembling in the first place?
If some folks got nudge for a buy and an additional cancel, purism have to pay for the parts, to build. And after the parts was build they have to shipped to purism and they have create a phone from the parts.
If you or some Bots cancel their Order in that Stage, purism have to wait for someone else to buy (to stay ±0), before they paid you back.
For a Small target group (like Nerds and Folks with a special interest, in the first place) Device.
Its not fair to compare kind of Pioneer they are, with Mainstream.
Edit: Do you know why Google, Apple, Facebook, China, Microsoft, Amazon… fear Companies which delivere Privacy and Free Software in the first place? … Think about it.
Yes I know this. I also know that there were refund requests made by people before the parts for their phone were ordered…
This assumes Purism is incompetent. Any competent business accounts for some percentage of orders being canceled as well as some percentage of loss (damage, lost in shipping, fraud, etc) and builds that cost into the cost of their product. If a refund can only be issued when a new order is placed that’s dangerously close to becoming a pyramid which is not a position any business wants to be in.
It’s a good thing I’m not comparing them to any business then. Though I would hold them to the same standards as any small business, including expecting them to honor the agreement that was entered into at the time of purchase which is an agreement they wrote that included the option of a refund.
They really don’t… just because they choose to prioritize profits over privacy and free software doesn’t mean that they fear them, it means they made a choice to prioritize something else, also this is irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you want to go down this rabbit hole there are plenty of existing topics to reply to or you can reply with a linked topic and we can go down that rabbit hole separately. It has no bearing on Purism providing refunds.
Implying I haven’t thought about this is a very weak tactic and less than honest at best, let’s focus on the points raised not the people making them.
and you are right about the incompetent of Purism about, (maybe) not to have the financial backup to refunded Humans which ar not satisfied by the use of that phone (yet).
You say you do not comparing them to any business, but you do. Because its not easy to establish a market in a world like ours. Where behavior got measured and changed by a big neural Network or humans with much more money/power and groups of Influencer’s or nudged private people like before in history.
And you say GAFCMA do not fear about and do not measure and change/nudge behavior in realtime… i am sorry do not think so. I am not in a rabbit hole i call you from your future.
From my perspective it do not matter if you use free software or the librem5 phone or do not.
Everyone who will get money (sooner) from Purism should just wish that company luck instead of hold of new customers away from spending money.
But i think they are not insolvent. Right know we all have to face some hard times.
Apple has record profits for services and are generally doing very well. Their M2 silicon is impressive on their laptops. Suspend and battery life are works of art and they have efficiency levels (floating point operations per Watt) at far higher levels than Intel or AMD. For their iPhones they only promise 5 years of security updates, but in practice they deliver at least 8 years.
In terms of refunds: They only charge the credit card upon order+shipment. You have only 14 days after receiving it for a full no-questions-asked refund for an iPhone.
Solvency: Their bonds are rated (Moody’s) as Aaa. No issues there. They have a massive amount of cash on hand ($51B as of end of Q4 2022). It’s transparent since they are a public company.
Disclaimer: I don’t currently own an Apple device. I did receive a free iMac in 2010, but the video card died recently.
Question Back: I’m not sure who you were asking, but I was wondering why do you ask? i.e. What was your point? It seems you would know the answers and that Apple does very well in those categories.
I’d say you missed the mark by pointing to a company that is often viewed as morally worse yet is doing better (albeit because of regulation more than choice on at least one of those fronts) at the things being complained about here.
In my opinion you didn’t make the point very well. You should probably have pointed
out aspects of the iPhone such as their “walled garden” and the proprietary nature
of the product that could leave privacy in question.
I have struggled with this concept for so many years now.
I used to think that I believed in free speech but the reality is I DO NOT believe in free speech. At all. There is absolutely no way that I could ever moderate a forum in a way that respects that principles enshrined in the American constitution, particularly with respect to the 1A. The only reality that I truly believe in is that only I deserve to have free speech and I would gladly slide into comfy despotism and lop off peoples heads if they said what I did not approve of.
As much as I agree with you and think the math is correct in your assertion, I have had to come to terms with the fact that allowing everyone to speak freely sharpens my own views dramatically. Watching the garbage shit show from the left over the last 8 years has been eye opening about how truly valuable free speech is, not for my enemies, but for my ability to constantly sharpen my rhetorical sword.
It is for this reason that I am impressed at Purisms ability to allow for this sort of thing and just let it be and be discussed openly.
Where the complaints have helped me is in sharpening my own perceptions of customer service and how to communicate with customers. I agree with you, 100% of the complainers need to shut the fuck up, that is my position. However, having them constantly put their perspective out there in the open, I have been able to see their perspective. This will help me handle my customers issues with more fidelity.
Purism’s (alleged) ineptitude at handling refunds pales in comparison to the fascist, Orwellian crap companies like Apple and Alphabet pour on their customers on a daily basis.
Update: It is now April 2023 and the refund for the phone returned in AUGUST 2022 has still not been processed.
I do not want to side-track into beliefs of Purism vs Apple and other debates. It is just a simple matter that refunds should be made promptly. To me this looks like they (i) got the phone (ii) got my money (iii) took 10% of it (iv) and never repaid me the rest. I basically lent them money with 10% negative interest rate.
In addition I never will get the custom duty back of € 130.
The First Amendment restrains the government. It does not oblige a company to give you freedom of speech. It does not oblige Purism to let someone use their own forum to suggest false things about Purism.
This would even apply to general communication platforms (like Facebook and Twitter) - and this forum is most certainly not a general communication platform.
Threads that have been used to propose organising a legal action against Purism have been disappeared. Whether that applies to that specific thread I have no idea.
As to “where” it disappeared to, you may have to study the source code for Discourse. Does the thread get deleted (it hasn’t disappeared to anywhere - it’s gone, deleted from the database)? Does the thread get hidden (it hasn’t disappeared to anywhere - you just can’t see it anymore)? Does the thread get moved (it has disappeared to somewhere)?
So just to be clear then … you are not seeking a refund for a non-delivered phone, you are seeking a refund under the 30 day change-of-mind policy?
Well sure but there’s little that Purism can do about that. You should complain to your government.
In respect of Customs, you would have been better off changing your mind before delivery. You still wouldn’t have your refund but you would at least be due a 100% refund (not 90%) and you would not have paid customs duty to your government. Easy to say now though …