Has Purism refunded you? Is Purism going insolvent?

[amarok]

Maybe it got renamed and your link no longer works?

More detail about the thread is required to search for it.

But if it was trying to organize a lawsuit, well…

@irvinewade

Threads that have been used to propose organising a legal action against Purism have been disappeared. Whether that applies to that specific thread I have no idea.

@amarok

I think some of your posts were “cut off” because those particular ones were inciting legal action against Purism. They’re not going to let you organize a lawsuit against them here in their own forums @qxqxw.

[irvinewade]

@ShimmeringLight

The phone was broken

So why wasn’t it a warranty claim? If it arrived broken?

(I have to say though that a warranty claim is likely to be even more of a problem in respect of Customs duty. Either way, your government makes your life difficult in respect of Customs.)

[holycow]

Oh screw off captain anal retentive.

[tracy]

@holycow

I used to think that I believed in free speech but the reality is I DO NOT believe in free speech.

There is always the old law school saw about falsely yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theatre. That is not considered free speach.

So you have a point.

[holycow]

I just meant in the general sense. The constitution sets an incredibly high standard for us to aspire to and I have had to accept that I truly cannot live up to it. I truly want to smash peoples faces when they say retarded things.

However, being forced to listen to others opinions such as the complainers here has forced me to reconsider some of that and consider that it is possible for two people to have opposing view points and still be right from their perspectives.

And all of that speaks to just how difficult it is to mod a forum with freedom as the standard.

[tracy]

I understand you did. (Typo on the first iteration.)

Don’t get into religion then. I have an old game with a Gahan Wilson cartoon on the front cover called “Credo”. I shows three persons argueing about the nature of Christ vs the Father saying: “Same substance!”, “Different substance!”, and “Similiar substance!”.

Subtitled: “The Game of Dueling Dogmas.”

[Privacy2]

@wimdows

Maybe I wasn’t so much trying to make a point, as trying to vent my irritation about the fact that this thread keeps popping up in the forum.

To review:

1. The thread had no activity for 10 days.

2. There was one comment two days ago.

3. You freaked out about people complaining about refunds/solvency and thought that people should ask these questions about Apple … who has no issues with refunds/solvency.

4. The result over the 10h after you comment is 21 comments and counting … some including more complaints.

IMO: There is something to complain about. You are you own worst enemy since all you did was rekindle the flame.

@wimdows

Purism’s (alleged) ineptitude at handling refunds pales in comparison to the fascist, Orwellian crap companies like Apple and Alphabet pour on their customers on a daily basis.

That’s your opinion. My opinion is that Purism is not being inept, they are intentionally delaying
refunds due to cash flow issues and it seems deceptive and malicious. i.e. They are intentionally abusing their own clients. In regard to Google/Alphabet, my opinion is that they are preying on customer
ignorance, but that informed customers can avoid being preyed upon (e.g. use a de-googled Android OS like GrapheneOS ). There are all kinds of “evil” and Purism’s “evil” may be different, but one can’t necessarily rank them and say one “evil” is better/worse/greater/lesser than another.

@wimdows

My point was that people should shut the fuck up complaining about Purism

You never said “why” people should STFU. It seems clear to me that there is a reason to complain. If you don’t like seeing it, don’t click. It’s pretty simple. Shouting out “la la la la I’m not listening to you” just makes it a worse spectacle.

But that’s just my opinion. FFTI (Feel Free To Ignore).

[Privacy2]

@holycow

I truly want to smash peoples faces when they say retarded things.

Wow! The self-referential nature of this statement is overwhelming.

[Privacy2]

@tracy

I have an old game with a Gahan Wilson cartoon on the front cover called “Credo”.

Speaking of “little known old games”, I have a (necessarily old) retail copy of WFF 'n Proof ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFF_'N_PROOF ). The WFF stands for Well-Formed Formula and is one of the rare early-60’s games of modern logic. Should we port it to the phone?

[irvinewade]

@Privacy2

people should ask these questions about Apple … who has no issues with solvency

Apple came close though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#1990–1997:_Decline_and_restructuring

[ShimmeringLight]

A friend of mine appears to also have a refund issue. Purism said he was one of many and had to wait. When asked how many, the muffled answer was it is in the 4 digits. Could that be true? Or have I just misunderstood? Grateful for any pointers or even better if someone could share their success to get a refund quickly. So far I am only hearing of people struggling to get their promised refunds.

It would be helpful if someone from Purism could reach out here and confirm that all refunds will be processed promptly.

[tracy]

Could be the agent’s misunderstanding of the refund serial numbers. If they start at 1000, there will always be four digits until it exceeds 9999. (This is data humor.)

[irvinewade]

@ShimmeringLight

So far I am only hearing of people struggling to get their promised refunds.

There is obviously a selection bias there though i.e. customers who got what they wanted (particularly if backing out of the transaction and consequently not owning a Purism product) have no reason to hang around like bad smells. So it is only the dissatisfied customers complaining in this forum about refunds.

Assuming that at least someone here is telling the truth then clearly it is not the case that “all refunds will be processed promptly”, so it would not be appropriate to post such a statement in this forum.

Here’s the bottom line: We are at post 94 in this topic and no-one in authority has ever posted in this topic. A couple of developers have unwisely stuck their heads above the parapet.

It seems likely that any official statement from Purism regarding the status of your refund will only come via the official support channel. So you will have to keep badgering Support with a sensible frequency.

[Privacy2]

@ShimmeringLight

Purism said he was one of many and had to wait. When asked how many, the muffled answer was it is in the 4 digits. Could that be true?

It doesn’t sound true to me. It’s possible that anybody who asked for a refund (for a laptop or phone) after a certain date (? 2019 ?) is still waiting for a refund. Evidence suggests that Purism isn’t providing refunds even when they have reached their spot in the queue. My guess, though, is that we’re talking fewer than 100 requested refunds (I would seriously doubt if it’s more than 500) and they are intending to ignore the requests until they have cash on hand (having already spent the money provided by the clients).

@ShimmeringLight

Grateful for any pointers or even better if someone could share their success to get a refund quickly. So far I am only hearing of people struggling to get their promised refunds.

There is a separate thread in this forum that is trying to track how long of a wait it is to get a refund. Estimate your Librem 5 refund 💸 . If you see others, direct them to that thread. Information is power and that thread will give you all more information about the size of the issue. You’ll note that some have gotten refunds and they list what actions they have take (whether 2 [Demand Letter], 3 [FTC], or 4 [AG].

In terms of what you can do:

1. If you live in California, you can take them to small claims court. You can’t bring a lawyer. But simply a printout of their refund policy with documentation that they aren’t following it should be sufficient.

2. If you have access to a lawyer or, for example, if you’re a college student, the ombudsman office (generally a free service for students). I have heard anecdotally (maybe about 2 years ago on reddit or on these forums) that the threat of a lawsuit has worked. And, if it doesn’t, the lawyer/ombudsman can advise you as to the pros and cons of filing a suit.

3. In either case, you could file a complaint with the FTC. Many people can file for Purism violating the Mail Order Rule (the number of complaints against a specific seller matters — it’s very expensive to Purism if the FTC decides to take up a case). The FTC also handles issues of no refunds for defective products.

4. If you are a US citizen you could file a complaint with the CA attorney general or your state’s attorney general.

In both of these last two cases you need to be clear about the issue. You should look up and provide Purism’s corporate ID and details (the CA Secretary of State has a free online lookup). [ https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business and search on “Purism SPC” ].

Make noise here and on reddit. There are people here even on this thread who don’t like this complaining because they would rather just have everyone like Purism — they seem to want to ignore that customers are having these issues. Your noise/warnings here might help others understand that they should not assume that the refund policy will be honored.

[Christal]

Hi ShimmeringLight,

you know. If you buy Parts… and combine them to a new product. Let make it simple and do a birthday Cake. You buy Ingredients for 35 Dollar, invest Work like 3 hours and Energy like 20 Dollar and have to pay insures, advertising and Sell the cake for 100 Dollar.

You see, that you have insert time and 58 Dollar to refound 100 Dollar. And if you finsihed the cake or orderd the 58 Dolarar in the first place.

Thats fine if you just had minior Phones to refound. And thats why i speak of a spam-Attack some places before. When Purism make a Deal with the Chip-Manufacturer for 1000 CPUs and later call 25% a refound they still have to deal with that 25% more CPUs and have less income for the 250 Phones like 1000 Dollar, even if the phones just have a margin of 10 Dollar per phone like 2500 Dollars. but if you subtract the Coasts for the 100 Dollar costs per phone you end up in 25.000 Dollar owes for that. Just why purism try to make a fair phone with less profit for each phone to be fair to everyone. Just to push the Linux Market.

In the End and after inflation about so many years they have to increase the Phone price… you know. All that’s not cheap.

On my site its just about speculation. I think they just think about some interest rate and to refund it later. Like i said before nobody want to lost money and everyone have an interest if the sell phones and god done with the refunds.

To have that phone would be cheaper in any case…

Regards

Christal

[Sharon]

@Vertebra

Supply chain risks are eliminated

That is not a new excuse for businesses taking advantage of the cliche’. I think people have caught on to that on by now. Looking back through the post, I’d say Puri has been having ‘supply chain’ issues long before there were supply chain issues.

Next
~f

[Vertebra]

Please don’t do partial quotes and frame it like I condone holding back refunds. My point is that the supply chain issues are risks the financial team can’t choose to ignore.

Purism is now shipping Q32019 orders and only miss one batch delivery from the Chinese assembly plant. Risk levels are clearly going down.

[joshua]

Today I received a full refund.

[mswiggs]

Great to hear! Did you do anything special to get it?

[Vertebra]

@Vertebra

Purism is now shipping Q32019 orders and only miss one batch delivery from the Chinese assembly plant. Risk levels are clearly going down.

While we wait on news on the E5 batch production. Purism is now shipping Q42019 orders and also increased the Core Team.