@Kyle_Rankin @joao.azevedo @mladen
Is Purism planning on getting through a backlog from January 2021 to August 2021 and reaching shipping parity all within 6 - 8 weeks?
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Your good bro. To be honest, I share in your frustrations. I haven’t involved myself in threads like this because the incessant arguing gets us nowhere.
For any interested, I ordered an L5USA on Jan 28, 2021. When I ordered, it stated the same “order now, get it in a few months,” that the regular L5 showed. However, a blog post from Purism stated that shipping parity for the L5USA was expected in Feb 2021. So, I’ve been waiting 6 months now since I ordered, and 5 months longer than I expected.
In other news, I just ordered a shiny new firearm with an estimated 60-90 day lead time. @aipei care to make any wagers on what I get first? 
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Idk man close call, Purism’s latest post says the L5 USA is in stock with a 60 shipping day lead time so very close 
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That’s the plan as long as we don’t hit any further delays or obstacles. It’s been a challenging year across the board, particularly with supply chain and shipping. You may not believe it, but we want to hit shipping parity on our products more than any customer. Based on past products, we always see some customers who will wait to order products from us until we hit shipping parity. It’s in our interest to hit shipping parity as soon as possible on all our products. Of course the shipping parity date is always somewhat of a moving target since new orders come in while we are still processing the old ones, but we are catching up.
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Then why haven’t you updated the status of the Librem 5 USA shipping status in your blog posts or shop? For example the Purism Products and Availability Chart has been saying “Librem 5 USA - In stock - Lead time: 60 days” for weeks now. This is completely misleading, given that you’re also telling costumers who ordered months back, to wait another couple of months.
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tl;dr: We try hard to make estimates accurate, we believe these lead times are accurate. Anyone who was told they needed to wait a couple more months to get a L5USA they ordered months back, was probably told in error.
I’ve elaborated on some past threads on how we approach estimates, since it comes up frequently. In case it’s interesting or helpful to folks I’ll give a longer explanation here. I’m not particularly interested in (or have the spare time for) arguing though, or answering questions posed in bad faith, so if anyone here is starting from a basis of thinking I’m lying about our intentions, and if you think we are intentionally trying to mislead people, feel free to skip the rest of my explanation.
Making lead time estimates are always challenging. We don’t want to mislead anyone. We review those numbers regularly, and whenever our current understanding of our timelines shows them to be inaccurate we update them. We want them to be as accurate as they can be based on our knowledge at a particular time because it’s important to set customer expectation, and it bothers us when a projection ends up being inaccurate. The challenge is always that it’s predicting the future based on current data, without knowing what might change the future. It’s an estimate, not a promise, and when we get the estimate wrong we can’t go back in time and change past estimates.
For instance we’ve reviewed the Librem 5 USA a few times since we’ve started shipping, and each time we’ve believed we’ll reach shipping parity within the stated lead time window, which means that new orders placed today would be fulfilled within that lead time. As we get caught up on the backlog, we’ll review that lead time and start lowering it. If we hit some minor delay, or get a surge in new orders, that ends up meaning we are keeping pace on orders, but not catching up on the new orders coming in, then that lead time tends to remain the same.
The challenge we continue to face though, is that we can’t predict future delays (or future orders), so these estimates are based on our best information at a snapshot in time. I certainly assumed we’d be far past shipping parity on the Librem 5 USA by now, if you had asked me for my best estimate when we started shipping them. Yet often when we hit some kind of delay (say a minor shipping delay on some component), resolve it, and then review our lead times, we still find that the estimate based on the standard of “when will an order placed today ship, based on the best of our knowledge” hasn’t changed, since we are estimating lead times (generally) on “weeks from the date of order” which is a moving target.
If we, instead, set hard dates (like August 2021) on lead time, which we have done sometimes in the past, we’d find ourselves having to review and change those estimates all the time, since they aren’t automatically a moving target. Then, of course, that causes some existing customers to misunderstand the lead time estimate to mean that their old order isn’t shipping until then, when the lead time on the shop is always geared toward a new order.
I don’t believe we are telling any Librem 5 USA customers that they will wait a couple more months, and if someone did get told that, it was a mistake or misunderstanding (possibly a confusion between Librem 5 and Librem 5 USA).
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I’d like to say up-front I’m not trying to give anyone a hard time. I work for a tech company that is telling customers they can get their equipment in Q1 2022 and there’s nothing we can do.
What is the most realistic lead time for the Librem 5 USA if an order was placed today?
And are folks that ordered in early June seeing phones show up 6-8 weeks later? i.e. now - late July / early August.
Thanks
My order was changed from the L5 to L5USA on June 9 and it started shipping on July 20 and arrived on July 27, so it was 6-7 weeks for me. Since I originally ordered the L5 on 2019-01-05, I was probably near the front of the queue. I have heard privately from someone who got his L5USA in early June. However, @aipei and @TacticalPandaLE say that they are still waiting, and @reC hasn’t mentioned receiving his L5USA either.
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Thank you for your response.
Ultimately, there isn’t anything here I can continue discussing.
My issue is that I don’t believe Purism aren’t updating their shipping estimates, due to individuals such as @TacticalPandaLE and myself still not receiving our Librem 5 USA’s.
However, you have reaffirmed that Purism does review the shipping dates.
There’s no way I can argue with this as I’m not privy to internal processes. While I do not believe this, my opinion is irrelevant as I cannot argue on opinion without an actual substance to the argument.
I understand @amosbatto is a unique case, as he actively contributes to the community, so I understand why he would receive it sooner as well, no argument there.
Due to this, I have no choice but to wait another two months.
This is surreal. The 9th week since 5th of June has not been reached yet and you wish that Purism update their shipping estimate because after 8 weeks and a couple of days you and TacticalPandaLE have not received your phone yet?
And still “in approximately 6 to 8 weeks!” is an update from the previous “in a few months!” that you found on their website when you bought your phone: so they did actually update their shipping estimates… just… 8 weeks ago (!).
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I’m not repeating this argument with you. Scroll up for my responses.
I’ll respond in two months or prior, if I recieve my device.
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aipei - I understand your frustration, but from my perspective, a person who ordered a phone a few years ago, their Evergreen mass-production phone just isn’t ready for quick shipping due to problems that you can read about in other posts.
The phone has charging issues, WiFi connection issues and from my opinion (let the hate replies begin), they are focused on Linux users that can forgive such issues and use this more for a science project rather than a daily phone.
My hope is to get it before year’s end, but I’m not pushing because I’d like as many problems ironed out as possible before I get mine. I use Linux on my laptop and workstation, and thought that a smartphone would be a great thing. I’ve got enough time to learn how to overcome the issues that are usually mentioned in the L5 forum and hopefully it will be more than an interesting paperweight. At least I’m looking forward to trying to use it to replace my iPhone. 
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I too, am on same boat. I use Linux as my primary OS. Don’t mind issues that Librem 5 would bring in.
And as you stated, with that very hope, I too, am patiently clinging to my already aged iPhone 5s. 
I would just like to state that my L5 has no charging issues or WiFi connection issues. (Just as information for the community.)
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My L5 has no WiFi nor cellular connection issues, nor any charging issues. However, I am waiting patiently for Byzantium to fix my bluetooth audio non-connection issue.
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Not having a L5 yet, are the basic issues resolved? Ability to make/receive calls and texts? Without issue? At least able to replace a iphone for basic phone functions? Next would be battery life, charging issues, and internet browsing? I can see keeping my iphone as just a blue tooth music player for the car.
I’m still on amber.
Calls and SMS work, as far as I know, but I’m not actively using a SIM card, only WiFi. Someone else will have to comment on the current state. I believe MMS is possible in amber with some tweaking, from what I’ve read.
Also, there is no VoLTE capability, so that’s a problem for U.S. users, and getting more critical as time passes. (Some have got VoLTE to work in Europe, I think. Not sure if with amber or byzantium.)
As for other basic functions: IMAP, WiFi, contacts import, web browsing, notifications, SSH, sound, alarms, file navigation/manipulation, web apps, music streaming, stored music playing, terminal, all work great. I believe Contacts might have some issues with dialing directly, but I think that’s being tracked already.
Firefox-ESR has the usual privacy and security add-ons that I consider critical for a safe browsing experience.
You can set a preferred DNS resolver for WiFi via Settings; for mobile, probably via Terminal.
Quite a lot of useful applications are already working with minimal or no adjustment.
Mapping, either with GNOME Maps or Pure Maps, works pretty well, and there’s also the web app option, if one wants to use something else.
Several people in the forum have got GPS/location services working, I think.
For me, the bluetooth setting is not working; I can turn it on, but it doesn’t seem to be scanning for devices. (Again, this is in amber.) Bluetooth used to work well for me, before a certain update. Hotspot didn’t work well, though.
There’s not a good, adaptive calendar app available, but there are some reminder apps that work.
I believe the online accounts function works, but I don’t use such services.
Battery life will be much shorter than what you’re used to, but it’s possible to get more idle time by limiting activities. Once suspend-to-RAM (correct term?) is implemented, standby time should improve drastically.
Some will find the weight of the device annoying. Some will dislike the thickness. I myself would like a lighter Librem 5 at some point, but don’t mind the thickness so much. Those two things are, of course, inter-related.
I can say that it has been very satisfying to see the functions improving so much in the 8 1/2 months I’ve owned mine.
And as I said, I don’t have any charging issues at all.
Edit: Oh, and the camera is not yet usable, but it’s getting there.
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The weight is approximately equal to 10 AA batteries, according to my consumer-grade kitchen scale. 
(The rechargeable kind)
Possibly this means “power consumption issues”. Without sleep mode, the power consumption is too high and hence the time between charges is too low (and you end up doing a lot of it). I haven’t had any actual charging issues using the supplied charger.
I regularly test receiving an SMS on the Librem 5. That seems to be solid. Sending an SMS on the Librem 5 seems to be solid. Calls seem to be solid. (I have a SIM in the Librem 5 full time.)
As I am attempting to use the Librem 5 as “daily driver”, I am sticking with amber until byzantium is officially released. (For that reason, likewise I am not playing around with MMS or VoLTE. They come when they come. MMS would be really nice as people do send them to me. VoLTE is not urgent in Oz but needs to be on the radar in the next few years.)
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