[Refund Req] Librem 5 PREORDER from 2018-Sept-4, estimated for Q1-2022

For the record, I truly do hope that Purism is doing their best. I ordered a L5 USA because I want the Librem 5 and because I want to support manufacturing in the USA. I really do hope that they deliver it in the 90 days of lead time I was told when I made the purchase, that I understood to mean they would guarantee it shipped by 90 days (which was also confirmed by a Purism support technician). If the Librem 5 is a decent device, I’ll even give Purism free good press by doing a Librem 5 review video. I’m not trying to be a hater. I’m just finding the defense of their practices…difficult to follow.

:sweat_smile: :sweat_smile: :rofl: :joy: :joy: Good luck with that. You’ll be lucky if it’s 90 months.

It surely is a communication issue.
Even if there might be a shipping-technical definition of “in stock” which means something else than common-language dictionaries tell (and things like this happen with many flavors of technical jargon!), ordering from an online shop surely does not imply any customer will take classes to figure out what common-sense words on the shop mean. If any shop owner wants to suggest to their customers that a word does have a special meaning, they have to look for an abstruse uncommon word, or create a new word out of thin air; otherwise the shop owner needs to talk a language his customers understand. The shop owner might try to educate its customers, but this is a slow and painful process.
The very moment Purism started selling to non-professional buyers they implicitly accepted this, knowing or not.
Communication problems can be overcome, usually through communicating more; however it takes time, wordy precision in clearing definitions and goodwill from both sides. A few blog posts here and there are simply not sufficient to offset built-up frustration and unmet expectations.

Has anyone actually bothered to email support and ask when the phone can be expected? Or is it more gratifying to feed impatience?

Disclaimer: Mine is a Librem 5 USA.

I asked when I could expect mine and was told 6-8 weeks–this was even though I was in batch Dogwood originally.

This is exactly what the site told people ordering fresh at that time. Dogwood, in other words, meant nothing.

I have, and I was told that Purism “can guarantee we will deliver your Librem 5 USA by early february” (i.e. within the 90 day lead time from my order that was placed on November 5). That said, Kyle Rankin told me in another thread that

so I’m not sure whether Purism is or is not guaranteeing that they will ship my L5 USA within 90 days of the order.

I don’t get how continuously keeping on the website the statement “Place your order now, get in approximately 90 days!” is not simply lying if orders from the end of June 2021 (at least) are still awaiting shipment.

What’s your case here? That, despite no shipments in half a year, they are still honest in their continuously enduring belief that the holdups will be unblocked very soon, the long queue of shipments will flush and any orders placed now will be shipped in 90 days?


I’m not making a ‘case’. I’m letting you know what I think after buying products from Purism for the past four years. And trying to help others who seem frustrated and confused. That’s all. But apparently it’s more than just confusion and frustration. In as much as they are confused by a product page, they can inquire. If they are frustrated by a company’s business practices, they can shop somewhere else. Live and learn. Cheers! :slight_smile:

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I’m curious to know how you all would rank the following groups in order of precedence for L5 USA shipment:

  1. People who did not crowdfund the regular L5, but ordered an L5 USA when it was first announced.

  2. People who did crowdfund the regular L5, whose place in the queue has already come up and was deferred to a later batch, but then elected to move into the L5 USA queue instead.

  3. People who did crowdfund the regular L5, whose place in the queue has not come up yet, but elected to move into the L5 USA queue instead.

  4. People who did not crowdfund the regular L5, but ordered an L5 USA after 1, 2, and 3 above.

Additionally, which order of precedence do you think Purism is following.

The L5 USA is a different product with its own queue of orders.

My understanding (and expectation) is that they are simply shipping L5 USA units in the order they were ordered — irrespectively of how. That is, you may have been a crowfunder from day dot elected to wait for your regular Evergreen, but if you upgrade that old order to L5 USA, you will not get it before the newbie who placed an L5 USA order just before the day you upgraded.

But anyone who can prove me wrong please do.

I was told my place in the L5 line would be honored in the L5 USA line…in other words, I (as a dogwood person) would come before any Elm person who wanted an L5 USA, and certainly before anyone who wasn’t a crowdfunder at all.

My understanding is the stated policy was 2, 3, 1, 4…

Crowdfunders whose place came up, first, then crowdfunders whos place hasn’t come up*** then people who ordered L5 USA early, then people who order it now.

***provided their original order date is earlier than the early L5 USA orders.

In other words, it would go by original order date. Now, they did hold a lottery way back when and some people got put into earlier L5 batches than would otherwise have been the case (I think I was one of them, actually). That would modify the ordering slightly from a strict original order date.

Right… So it means if a newbie places an L5 USA order from scratch, waits say 80 days, a unit for them becomes available but on the 81st day some old backer upgrades to L5 USA — the unit will go to the backer, and the newbie will wait for the next unit.

However, that still does not negate the expectation that the 90-day lead time is either honored for everyone, or withdrawn from the product page. None of which is happening.

That said, on a 90-day frame, the considerations of who gets the units first are not that important comparing to the years people wait for regular L5’s,

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That’s both what I expect, and what I understand their policy to be.

I am a fairly late backer, but still preordered the regular Librem 5 long before it was available. I decided to switch (with some misgivings because the price was triple what I originally paid). They haven’t honored that; they haven’t honored anything.

I’ve waited years for some sort of phone.

I agree with you about what they should (not) put on their page. Not negated either way.

With what money?? Mine have been stolen by Purism. I’ll write about that soon.

to steal:
verb (used with object), stole, sto·len, steal·ing.

to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force [dictionary.com]

Angry, confused and broke? You’ve got it rough!

And you’ve got it 2 out of 3 wrong.

And you’ve got it 2 out of 3 wrong.

Yes of course. My mistake.

Could you please not. That doesn’t help anyone.


None of this is helping anyone.