When is Crimson coming?

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“Red” flags? (Duck)

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Can one just upgrade to crimson? like a normal debian dist-upgrade changing sources.list?

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No. It has to be a reflash (if you want to work).

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I disagree, and say that volunteer does matter in this case. Sure you can have a volunteer which is ate up and totally dedicated to giving all of their time to development, but this is extremely rare and not the norm in any way. Rather what happens is strong energy and then life happens, burn out happens, project stall, projects die.

On the other hand, paid development does not follow this trend. When you are paid to develop you have a commitment to complete the tasks. You can’t just walk away without more serious consequences.

The Librem 5 needs paid developers with reliance on them primarily.

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Burn out can still happen. :slight_smile:

Projects do also stall and die.

However this is all generalisation, that may not be useful as it applies to one specific project.

It may also be overtaken by events, as the wheels, apparently, are starting to turn again on crimson.

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I think you are missing the point. Volunteers are under no contractual obligation to do anything. This is the weakness in this sense.

On the other hand if you are paid to do something, you are under a contractual obligation to complete the thing you were paid for. You getting burned out, or whatever else can still happen, but you are accountable to this obligation. Furthermore there is generally a mechanism is place that will fire you and hire someone else who is not burned out, or otherwise not performing. Sounds cold but is true.

Furthermore, professional products die, because of a lack of funding, not because of a lack of work.

Volunteer products die from all of the above. There is no insolation. We can sit here and kum by ya all day long about the virtues of volunteer efforts, but history tells us repeatedly in the OSS world just how far those good wishes and feelings actually go. It is paid development in the form of Red Hat and Canonical that is moving this effort forward by and large. Paid development across wine / and Proton via Valve, as another point. Paid development sees progress.

That is my point.

I don’t disagree with what you said in general. That said, I think it missed the specific point of the conversation.

My comment was specifically in regard to Debian and their ability to provide support to their distributions. Gunther made the point that the “Debian Security Team” was a volunteer team (which I knew) so one shouldn’t be concerned about “volunteer or not”. [Aside: Gunther also made the point that the “Debian LTS Team” was not a completely volunteer team (which I didn’t know; it has volunteers and there are companies such as Freexian, credativ, and others that provide money for their devs to commit some specified number of hours on LTS support).]

My point was that, regardless of “volunteer” or “not volunteer”, there is cause for concern when Bullseye moves from updates by the “Debian Security Team” to updates by the “Debian LTS Team”. I’ve now shown two important CVE’s that have not been patched by the LTS Team for Buster. At this point I actually trust the “Security Team” (which is “all volunteer”) more than the “LTS Team” (which is not “all volunteer”).