Branch off: My comment about r/Purism re Librem 5

Continuing the discussion from Estimate your Librem 5 shipping:

So as not to distract from the above thread…

My comment in that thread stems from my observation that many members of r/Purism seem to only go there to snipe and air their (frequently legitimate) grievances and insults at Purism, rather than answer the OP’s requests for knowledge, advice, or support.

This is human nature, of course. When we feel wronged, we lash out.

And in fact, people are sniping that Reddit post:

In this case the OP didn’t have a “request for knowledge, advice, or support.” The OP was only there to complain about FedEx (with the all-too-naive view that FedEx is measurably worse than their competitors).

I’ve got to say that the comment “that’s the only trick they know” is, in fact, there to villainize and demean. It seems unnecessary and petty, especially if, as you say, the grievances are frequently legitimate.

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Fair enough. I guess I was thinking more about the general environment* in Reddit, which triggered my attempt at humor.

*Or at least my perception of Reddit’s environment. Which, granted, may be unfair.

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How weird. Out here in Australia when I’ve had stuff sent via Fedex they have blitzed it. Super fast and delivery to my regional door. Likewise I once sent a laptop back to Canada via Fedex which was painless. Go figure. By contrast I have found DHL and USPS to be a nightmare.

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In all fairness, there’s been quite a bit of that going on around here as well.

Righto. Try calling a DHL customerservice over here. The process is designed to drive you mad, I swear! First you hang in a hotline queue for 30 Minutes. Then you have to enter a parcel number, the number of former lovers and your grandmothers social security number into a stupid automated phone system before you get the chance to “press 2 if we lost your bloody parcel”. Press two, and they automatically hang up on you!!! No joke. I had the phone system hang up three times on me when telling them that they lost my parcel.

Worst is Hermes, one of the competitors over here. They delivered a package to us which had neither our street nor the housenumber (nor our name) on it. When calling the Hermes customer service, they told us to bring the parcel to a shop of theirs. When I told them that they freaked up and I would not deliver their parcel anywhere. They told me to just throw it in the garbage, as we would not be liable for the loss. (the delivery man had faked a receiver’s signature on the parcel already!).

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I remember a rumor about DHL in their early years. It was a place to go to find a one-way ticket out of the country as a courier. Then it became more respectable.

I’m shocked at how dedicated some of the anti-Purism users are on that sub. There are people with no orders they’re waiting on, nothing at stake, who have done nothing but complain for years on every post. I can’t imagine going to the forums of companies I don’t like to do nothing but be negative for years on end. Seems like a very sad way to spend your time.


People hate being deceived and think it is the responsible thing to warn others. For example, consider .

It warns people that the process of ordering an “in stock” device does not imply that they will get a timely refund should they choose to cancel the order before it ships.

Caveat Emptor.

I’m surprised that there haven’t been other stories about how returns for lemons are not allowed either: New Librem 14 will not power on

This is the forum for Purism ( ) . The /r/purism subreddit is not a company forum. It’s a discussion site.

I’m not sure why you are surprised. It’s kind of like

  1. … the people who complain about Microsoft even though they haven’t used Microsoft for years. Or
  2. … the people who need to chime in that they stopped using Ubuntu 5 years ago because some default was “opt-out” at one time. Or
  3. … people who don’t use Mozilla, but spend time on such discussion ( ). Or
  4. … people who make comments about how shocked they are that people who have been deceived are still outraged.
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Way to keep it civil.

I’m detecting sarcasm. In what way was it not civil? You seem to think that any expression of disagreement is somehow “uncivil”.

I’ll remind you the last time you replied to me was where you called me an ass. And, as far as I can tell, it was because I was disagreeing with someone who was selling crackpot theory of physics (limitless energy, QM is a lie, …).

If you’re referring to those two times I’ve responded to you, then I suppose so. But for your information, “people like you” is a phrase generally regarded as a personal insult (or “attack,” as some would say, but it takes a lot for me to call anything verbal an “attack.”). As such, your response seemed uncivil.

As far as calling you an ass, I don’t recall the specifics, but your method at the time did strike me as overly hostile. If it truly bothered you, feel free to message me.

I agree that my using “people like you” was excessively confrontational. I was trying to underscore that the OP was being a bit hypocritical and probably went farther than I should have. Edited.

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I think that Purism should probably make their own subreddit like Pine64 did.

People could be directed to the official Purism subreddit for official support, and the Purism subreddit that currently exists would continue to be a place for people to discuss the good and the bad about Purism. If the official subreddit becomes welcoming and active enough, more people might switch over to it.

Although, Purism really needs to work on their image and fix all of these problems in the company.

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I will do my part and be less presumptuous when reading responses. You and I will be friends yet. Doc.

Perhaps the emphasis was on “how dedicated”. In other words, yeah, I get it that there are people in the world with an axe to grind but eventually most people, with no skin in the game, will move on.

Inevitably, by failing to move on, the information being spread will become out-of-date - as could apply in your Ubuntu example. So the person will be spreading disinformation.

In other words, what a

very sad way to spend your time

(where “your” is a reference to the people on reddit that were being referred to in the quoted text, not to you personally).

Exactly. I haven’t used Microsoft Windows for years - that’s my choice. But I spend exactly zero seconds of my day on any discussion platform relating to Microsoft Windows for the purposes of bad-mouthing Microsoft. There are people who have no choice but to use Windows. There are people who choose to use Windows and I am not dissing their choice. I simply don’t spend any seconds of my day to bad-mouth Microsoft.

I would only complain about Microsoft where it impacts on me (for example, the damned Microsoft Authenticator app).

LOL. I hear you.

Exactly. There are users there who were complaining two, three years ago, who are still active on every other thread. Not waiting on refunds, not waiting on orders, no ties to the company whatsoever, but years later they won’t move on. That’s not healthy.

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Can you give an example of someone with nothing at stake and who is still active on every other thread?

One could argue that keeping track of people on those threads isn’t healthy either. I think that you’ve already indicated that you don’t think that /r/Purism is helpful. I’m curious about why you keep track of it so closely.

It seems to me that /r/Purism has calmed down ever since a pro-Purism troll ( /u/Adwaitian ) was suspended for misuse of blocking. Given that, it’s possible that a good deal of the traffic and anti-Purism anger was provoked by pro-Purism trolling.

Because as someone who cares about Purism succeeding, I would like to see how it’s being discussed in various places.

Fair enough. The question, then, goes back to whether that is any “healthier” than those who spend time discussing issues with Purism and providing the “caveat emptor” warnings.