(nice pick up on the Librem 5 lead time change - I didn’t see an announcement of that)
Not to mention the partially announced Librem 11 tablet and the Librem 16 laptop.
It seems increasingly likely that this topic title is defamatory rubbish.
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Yes. Seems like it should be moved to Round Table. It’s really not about phones anyway.
Are you guys some Purism bots? Grateful if you could rather spend your energy and getting us the refunds paid out?
It is abusive to refer to genuine concerns about refunds “as defamatory” or “rubbish”.
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Please be clear on what I wrote … this topic title is defamatory rubbish.
(emphasis added this time)
It’s your topic. You can fix the title. Or not.
The title is a question. I’ve not known any question to be defamatory nor, demonstrably true nor false… also many businesses have released new products days before bankruptcy, releasing new products is not a sign of profitability nor solvency.
A question is almost never defamatory. I think that I already gave you a link to US Court rulings on this [see below]. However, you seem immune to information that you wish to ignore.
IMO, given Purism’s history as documented on these forums ( Estimate your Librem 5 refund 💸 ) of not providing timely refunds, violating the FTC Mail Order Rule, and/or honoring their refund policy, it is a good question.
[Edit: I think it was you, but I can’t find where we discussed this. The link I gave was here https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f00eb73f-40a8-4bd1-b522-5e112d23264c which contained the following example which is even worse since what the judge dealt with was an defamatory assertion with a question mark tacked on.
“Were it not for the question mark at the end of the text, this would be an easy case,” the court said. “Woods phrased his tweet in an uncommon syntactical structure for a question in English by making what would otherwise be a declarative statement and placing a question mark at the end. Delete the question mark, and the reader is left with an unambiguous statement of fact: “So-called #Trump ‘Nazi’ is a #BernieSanders agitator/operative.”
But the question mark cannot be ignored, Judge Smith found. “The vast majority of courts to consider questions as potential defamatory statements have found them not to be assertions of fact,” he wrote. “Rather, a question indicates a defendant’s ‘lack of definitive knowledge about the issue’ and ‘invites the reader to consider’ various possibilities.”
]
Discussed here: https://forums.puri.sm/t/so-why-are-you-still-here/19611 which might be a better place to continue that point.
Releasing new products is certainly not proof one way or the other. However the passage of time alone makes the suggestion less and less credible.
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It was a question, not a suggestion. And as we discussed in this thread and the one you reference, it’s not defamatory.
I’m choosing to discuss in this thread, because what I’m discussing is your recent behavior:
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Why do you persist in saying it’s defamatory when you know it’s not defamation since it is expressed as a genuine question?
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Is accusing the OP of defamation, itself, defamatory? Probably not, but only because of ©, below — but it’s still rude and should be out-of-place on this forum. Here is the evidence:
a. You are making an accusation of bad behavior and not phrasing it as an opinion. Specifically, you wrote: " Please be clear on what I wrote … this topic title is defamatory rubbish."
b. Do you know better? Yes, in the sense that you were informed that “questions” and “when expressed as opinion” are not defamation.
c. The OP is using a presumably anonymous pseudonym it is probably not defamation since it must cause actual harm.
Thinking back, I probably should just have reported you.
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Free legal advice: Always frame defamatory rubbish as a question.
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Or use preperatory phrases such as “I think …” or “In my opinion …”
In my case, I may use parody or humor. (i.e. Did Bing Crosby’s horse ever come in??
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Your whole complaint is based on a quote taken out of context.
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No, it’s not. In fact I’ve quoted before and will quote now exactly irvinewade’s clarification of what he means:
I’ve discussed that claim with him before and cited US court opinions. The topic title is a question. In the US a question or a clearly stated opinion is not defamatory, yet he persists with that label when he knows it is not appropriate.
This is the original quote. -I- take that as the original intent, it seems you don’t. …and I suppose that’s all to be said about that.
People, come on. It’s just a title. I guess there is something more important to discuss here and who ever wins that dispute will win nothing.
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Whether it’s that quote or his clarification (which ought to be better) it doesn’t matter. Under no circumstances is the topic title defamatory rubbish. And he knows that because we had already discussed this months ago: https://forums.puri.sm/t/so-why-are-you-still-here/19611 . IMO irvinewade’s recent post was only to troll the OP and is against forum rules. That’s the full context.
Free legal advice: Get legal advice from someone who is qualified to give it. 
And yet the OP has declined the opportunity to change the title, thereby tacitly endorsing his own title.
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And since people seem to still be unclear in regard to defamation: If something is expressed as a question or is a clearly expressed opinion, it’s not defamatory in the eyes of the US judicial system. i.e. We are still allowed to ask questions and have opinions on things that others might disagree with.
What is surprising is the number of people on this forum who can’t
distinguish questions from assertions or who think that other people shouldn’t
be allowed to express their opinions or viewpoints without being subject to defamation
penalties. Or, from a US perspective, is it possible that people only like their own 1st amendment rights, but get upset when others use their 1st amendment rights???
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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death my right to cancel you 
It’s been over 10 weeks since they got my phone and still no information from Purism regarding refunds 
I wonder how many people are impacted by this unprofessional way of doing business…
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