I never said anything like that! My point was that FTC is watching and not acting.
This is not the first time you an intentionally misrepresent my proposition. You force me to report you behavior.
That’s an assumption, which you again didn’t provide a source for.
And of course if what you say is true, there must be a reason for why Purism is “clean” in regards to the FTC rules. So please quote the section of the FTC rules which exempts Purism from having to follow them. Or are you saying the customers are lying and Purism in fact did aquire the consent to delay the shipment in each case and promptly refunded customers if the consent wasn’t given?
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I leave that to FTC. They are unbiased, competent and doing a real job.
That’s debatable
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Over 14 weeks since Purism received my Librem 5 and still no info about refund… 
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In my case they have the phone since mid August 2022, so 10 months! Also they are not responding at all to any enquiries. Basically, took the phone and kept the money. But people like these Purism bots here on the forum will hurry to defend in the indefensible. They should be ashamed really. I am all for the idea of Purism and was an early supporter. They have ruined and broken the trust. They just look like a substandard poor criminal outfit. It is almost more benign to be broke than unethical.
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First E5 batch phones are likely shipping now.
Lead time on new Librem 5 orders is reduced to 6 weeks.
Next generation OS Crimson is in development.
Liberty Phone is announced.
More investor-funded products are expected soon.
It seems increasingly likely that this topic title is defamatory rubbish.
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Not just announced. In stock and available for purchase with a lead time of 14 days.
Fixed that for you. 
(I mean announcing things is easy. Governments do that all the time. But it needs to be more than vapourware.)
So, by contrast, the Librem 11 is (pre-)announced. Ditto the Librem 16. You can’t purchase either.
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Ha, of course you are right.
1, a question not a statement and in turn not defamation by any reasonable standard
2. The state of things now is not the state of things when the question was asked, implying that because things appear to be improving on one front negates the flaws on another front at a different point in time is dishonest at best
C. Releasing new products while having outstanding unpaid debts does not negate the concern, if anything that’s evidence of behavior closer to a ponzi than anything else. And before someone claims that drawing a correlation is an accusation, all I did is point out correlation of concepts I have not accused anyone of anything here.
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… and round and round we go.
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That’s what happens when you are caught lying to support your narrative, you deflect and accuse the person who dig up the truth, of being wrong again on something they never said
Oh ! And always demand sources from others, when you never provid one for your lies
There is worse, anti-competition bots from those big tech companies, trying to hurt any other brand playing on their field, this is obvious we have a bunch of that here
We can see an other economic expert here, who don’t understand what is a ponzi scheme, and how creating new products works
[rolling drums with dramatic voice]
Will it be still a ponzi scheme when they reach shipping parity and have stocks for all their products ?
… to be continued with the next wave of bots…
…yep … 
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I think puri.sm will be around for a good many years to come. I don’t think insolvency is still an issue.
Actually, I’d would be more worried about a bigger company snatching it up.
They have sales, they are shipping, and they have a backlog. Having a backlog is actually good. The immense delay was worth complaining about however. Yes they need to work on their refunds and there will always be unsatisfied customers.
By the way, someone needs to start an “Estimate your Refund Thread”, just like the “Estimate youre L5 Shipping” thread. Although for each posting expect the poster to drop off this forum.
I surmise the non-USA versions are the ones with the oldest backlog.
Solution: Offer long standing non-USA customers on the backlog a free USA upgrade to relieve the backlog. That would be like Ford F150 customers from a hypothetical 2019 backlog being offered a 2023 model instead. Yes sure the price difference would make the loss a write off, but what company hasn’t endured a write off?
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You mean something like this?
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This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.
This topic was automatically opened after 8 days.
This isn’t necessarily tied to this comment. I just got a Librem 5 and thought I’d check out the Purism forums. This is the first topic that I happened to check out and I’m genuinely shocked and rather disgusted by the bully mentality…and mainly from the community moderator.
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Welcome to the forum! You’ve stumbled upon… well… one of the more controversial threads here. It’s definitely got more than its share of passionate venting, reasonable criticisms and, yes, admittedly too much snarkiness directed toward fellow forum members at times.
I will state that irvinewade was made a community moderator only 9 days ago, so they were not a moderator at the time of any of the prior postings. I stepped up in October to assist with forum engagement and became a moderator sometime in November. Since then, Purism leadership has been increasing my scope of responsibilities such that only a fraction of my time is spent monitoring the forums, so adding a community moderator became increasingly important.
We certainly want you to feel welcome, valued, and safe here. You should be able to speak your mind and connect with the community without harassment, even if others may not always agree. If you feel that someone is out of line or that a post breaks the forum rules, please do not hesitate to flag the post for review. You are also welcome to send myself or other moderators private messages with your feedback. I truly do appreciate your feedback and will continue to try to make adjustments to transform this forum into a pleasant and informative place to be for everyone.
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I am respecting a request to close this thread given the numerous flags and complaints of toxicity within it. There are several other open threads regarding L5 refunds or shipping delays. If you (the reader) feel that there is something left undiscussed in this thread, you are welcome to create a new topic. In this case, please do try to be specific in the scope of the question or concern; vague or open-ended threads often result in heated arguments or chaotic speculation without much supporting evidence.
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