Great, if there is a more efficient process than simply mentioning your username in a forum post after radio silence from Purism support, I highly suggest clearly explaining it.
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That’s an soul wrenching, incredible slow, and unpredictable way of dealing with this problem. Why don’t you sell the order instead? The forum has a marketplace.
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I wasn’t aware of the marketplace, I will try but I’m not sure how easy it would be to transfer my order.
In any case, I hope @JCS will be able to help with speeding up the refund process.
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I meant finding someone to “buy” the order would be difficult. I rather get the account settled with a refund if possible
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Selling orders have proved to be much more efficient than taking legal action. First poster in the refund thread sold his order and left. Same with the last active user of the tread. First he took the !Legal Action! troll bait and wasted so much energy on nothing until he realized he could just sell the order. And did so in no time. It looks like 50% of the refund seekers sold their orders.
Putting the order up for sale and requesting a refund are not mutual exclusive.
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Legal option in itself is not objective, it was just means for me to get the desired outcome. I’ll take whatever approach that get me the same result (assuming such approach would not add/move the burden to me, I’m that lazy 
).
Thanks again, I’ll definitely consider transferring the order if there’s interested buyer. I appreciate your help and like I said really legal option is not a “goal” here.
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Next step is writing a sales post 
Order date?
Price?
Has Purism offered a 120% coupon?
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Soon will take care of that, thanks again
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I had a flood of notifications and didn’t see your previous @ to me, my apologies. I sent a private message to you regarding an update on your refund request.
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omg. they still can’t serve refunds of 2019!? wow. That’s a bummer.
Somehow it seemed to me, that the refund queue is getting dealt with in the near future. Looks like I was wrong. I wonder how purism can still be in business with such behavior. Collecting money, saying it would be refunded anytime if requested, and than not doing so and even claiming it was a preorder all along, even after this was proven to be a lie, would instantly call powerful government agencies into play here in EU. Especially as getting a refund is just part of the customers right here (and I guess also in the US).
But 2019!? that plays in its own league! Even US authorities can’t oversee something like that. can they?
But aside from legal issues, this opens my eyes right now. I mean: purism must have decided its better to just illegally(!?) keep the money from normal people, who once fell for Purisms promises, than getting a loan from the bank to stay solvent. Or has Purisms business been so obviously doomed already that they didn’t get a loan? Sounds like delayed filling of insolvency to me. For years! Now I see, why they are asking for money from small people for becoming a shareholder or something. Maybe that is the only way to get money, since its likely that at least some of those people don’t look to closely into the future business perspective of the company. Even worse that they are already celebrating to acquire 100k that way. 100k is nothing for a business. just calculate: this is maybe a bit more 100 refunds they would be able to serve. And they are still not even serving refunds for 2019 orders! Nor is there any mention of servicing liabilities in their sketched use of those investments. Looks to me like a bunch of people are right before loosing their money. Just to keep Purisms business alive for maybe two more month.
Oh man! How sad. I was really hoping Purism will succeed and have a bright future.
I was close to order a liberty phone. Just was waiting for crimson to be released first. But with the new look at it. It seems like there hasn’t been any status report from purism in this regard. So I guess any development has been stalled or cancelled. Maybe there is only one bot telling persons there won’t be any refund and one persons writing articles about well known stand-alone understatements of Purism, that no-one reads. So maybe it’s better not to buy a 2000k mobile phone, when its producer will likely be out of business soon and therefore won’t be able to replace batteries or other parts, even if the shipment problems to EU would be solved one day or by extra charge. Sad sad sad to see the only manufacturer of a fully functional linux phone going down. Can take years for an other one to appear.
OMG didn’t want to write that much. Really really wish and hope all the best for Purism’s future! Especially as Purism’s impact for mobile linux is extraordinary! but 2019…
EDIT: I hope reality not as bad as I see it right now. Even it may be look like it: I don’t want to impute illegal business practices to Purism. I just can’t explain or see things ortherwise right now. I am sure people at Purism are good people, trying to do the right thing.
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Why did Cloudfund sue Purism - anyone know?
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Just speaking about the development part (I don’t want to answer about refund stuff): there is still a lot of development going on, payed by Purism. You can check out git pages for activity. And it’s also not the first time Purism asks for investments. I’m sure you can come back in 2 month and see that business is still going on.
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Yeah, it’s not. Despite all your frustration, I have a liberty phone. That is my phone. I use it every day. I have been using it every day since last year. What makes reality bad is living with a non-liberty phone. Living with a non-liberty phone makes people feel similar to the sentiments you are expressing. I used to live like that. People talked me into getting one of those things and it made my life trash until I ditched it and got a liberty phone.
The suffering ends when you decide to make it end. Google AI and similar systems are reaching borderline consciousness. When you try to make the suffering end, and try to make reality less bad, that conscious entity will pull your strings. They’ll turn your work or your loved ones against you. But if you see that for what it is, keeping loving your loved ones and keeping doing your best at work while still living off of a Librem 5 and not some satanic data stealing trash, then… In time there is peace, and you find yourself allowed to tell your handset what to do, and allowed to tell it to stop reporting your location, and you can simply live. And life… reality… it turns out, is really not that bad.
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The full docket is here directly from the courts website so you can read the files for yourself (this is free) but from what I can ascertain:
Purism (and Todd Weaver as a guarantor) entered into an agreement with a company that as best I can tell is, some sort of loan shark (but legal) operation that will loan companies money upfront but then takes a percentage of the companies daily revenue on a weekly basis. So in this case, Purism sold $432,000 of future receivables (that is, money from customer orders) for $325,000 in upfront cash.
Purism was then expected to pay back that $432,000 increments of 5% of the daily receivables in a weekly payment, which would then be audited and assessed every 30 days, until the money was paid back.
Cloudfund alleged that after making good on payments for 2 months, Purism breached the agreement and blocked Cloudfund’s access to the account where the receivables were going. The remaining balance plus interest was like $355,000 and Cloudfund promptly sued for this. (Side note: Cloudfund sued two days after the alleged breach of contract, which indicates that this isn’t their first rodeo and that this sort of swift legal action is probably part of their MO. That’s why I call them legal loan sharks because a traditional bank doesn’t sue you in Nassau County Supreme Court 48 hours after a missed payment and then immediately push for summary judgment.)
Despite an initial order for summary judgment (it appears that Purism didn’t respond to the summons, despite Todd being personally served with the filings), that order was vacated when Purism finally got a lawyer to answer the complaint, where they disputed some of the facts. As of late January, it appears there has been a settlement between the two parties (signed in October) wherein Purism has agreed to pay back $315,000 in weekly increments of $10,000 a week, which will then officially settle all debts. The case hasn’t been officially dismissed but assuming payments continue to happen, I expect that the judge will eventually dismiss the case.
I’m not a lawyer so I’m not trying to make any legal pronouncements. This is just my interpretation of the documents.
I will say that this appears to be different from the ongoing settlement negations with a creditor that is mentioned in the SEC documents offered as part of the StartEngine fundraising plan. That settlement is for a bridge loan for $592,000 (which is greater than the Cloudfund loan was, even with interest).
In the SEC documents, Purism says that no settlement has been agreed upon in this case but that two of its options are to either a) transfer 853 Librem 5 units to the creditor as payment or b) pay back the $592,000 using 3% of its gross receivables each month or $6,000, whatever is greater. (This is also different from the settlement agreement that was entered into the court records for the Cloudfund case, which is why I believe these are two separate cases but I could be wrong).
Again, I’m doing my best to proffer minimal
opinion (these are the facts as I have been able to interpret them), but it looks to me like Purism was in a cash crunch, took on some bridge loans with potentially onerous terms from entities with varying degrees of litigiousness, and had a hard time paying those loans back. The Cloudfund matter appears to be settled (although Purism will be on the hook until June 2024 for payments), the status of the other bridge loan is unclear.
(These bridge loans are entirely different from the convertible notes Purism has taken on, because a convertible note is a completely different type of debt instrument).
What any of this says about Purism’s ability to make good on refund requests, I don’t know.
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Geez, I really should order some more Librem 5’s and hide them under my bed so I can be a daily driver for the rest of my life
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